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Betting

TagLast edit: Sep 16, 2020, 9:45 PM by Ruby

Betting is staking money (or some other form of value) on one’s beliefs. It is considered rationally virtuous to bet on one’s beliefs, as the real stakes force one to actually consider precisely what they anticipate will really happen. LessWrong has a culture of betting.

See also: Prediction Markets, Forecasting & Prediction, Forecasts (Specific Predictions)

Why is betting important?

The argument in favor of betting is that one should generally either accept a proposed bet, in order to make money in expectation, or update their beliefs so the bet becomes unprofitable. There are exceptions to this rule, some theoretical, such as the example of Omega and Omicron, and some practical, such as uncertainty about whether the bet will be fulfilled. Offering a bet forces someone to think more carefully and share their beliefs more precisely. Losing a bet, even small, can make it more emotionally visceral in a way that might lead to sharpening belief calibration more. Bets can be made about beliefs that can be immediately verified or about beliefs that will only be verifiable in the future.

In popular culture, this idea is often referred to as “putting one’s money where one’s mouth is”.

A Bet is a Tax on Bullshit mentions that:

In fact, the NYTimes should require that Silver, and other pundits, bet their beliefs. Furthermore, to remove any possibility of manipulation, the NYTimes should escrow a portion of Silver’s salary in a blind trust bet. In other words, the NYTimes should bet a portion of Silver’s salary, at the odds implied by Silver’s model, randomly choosing which side of the bet to take, only revealing to Silver the bet and its outcome after the election is over. A blind trust bet creates incentives for Silver to be disinterested in the outcome but very interested in the accuracy of the forecast.

In What Does the Betting Norm Tax?, Bryan Caplan says that such a norm should also be present among scholars.

Operationalization for Bets

Operationalizing a belief is the practice of transforming a belief into a bet with a clear, unambiguous resolution criteria. Sometimes this can be difficult, but there can be ways around some difficulties as explained in Tricky Bets and Truth-Tracking Fields. The same challenges are present for prediction markets.

Prediction Markets

A prediction market is a way for everyone to participate in betting on a particular question. A positive externality of prediction markets, and to a lesser extent bets, is providing a reliable probability on its questions. It can also act as an insurer. 34 Truthcoin, an idea for a decentralized prediction market, has the slogan “Making cheap talk expensive”.

Long Bets is also a useful platform to make certain bets.

The purpose of Long Bets is to improve long–term thinking. Long Bets is a public arena for enjoyably competitive predictions, of interest to society, with philanthropic money at stake. The Long Now Foundation furnishes the continuity to see even the longest bets through to public resolution. This website provides a forum for discussion about what may be learned from the bets and their eventual outcomes.

However, Long Bets hasn’t good incentives to make long term bets as explained by Jeff Kaufman in Long Bets by Confidence Level.

See also:

External links:

Even Odds

Scott GarrabrantJan 12, 2014, 7:24 AM
77 points
48 comments3 min readLW link

The Kelly Criterion

ZviOct 15, 2018, 9:20 PM
99 points
24 comments3 min readLW link
(thezvi.wordpress.com)

Bets, Bonds, and Kindergarteners

jefftkJan 3, 2021, 9:20 PM
423 points
35 comments2 min readLW link1 review
(www.jefftk.com)

Bet­ting Thread

AmandangoOct 20, 2020, 2:17 AM
33 points
2 comments1 min readLW link

[Link] Bet Your Friends to Be More Right

katydeeNov 8, 2013, 9:12 PM
11 points
4 comments1 min readLW link

UFO Bet­ting: Put Up or Shut Up

RatsWrongAboutUAPJun 13, 2023, 4:05 AM
259 points
216 comments2 min readLW link1 review

Bet­ting with Manda­tory Post-Mortem

abramdemskiJun 24, 2020, 8:04 PM
105 points
14 comments1 min readLW link

Self-driv­ing car bets

paulfchristianoJul 29, 2023, 6:10 PM
236 points
44 comments5 min readLW link
(sideways-view.com)

The Bayesian Tyrant

abramdemskiAug 20, 2020, 12:08 AM
143 points
21 comments6 min readLW link1 review

A con­crete bet offer to those with short AGI timelines

Apr 9, 2022, 9:41 PM
199 points
120 comments5 min readLW link

The Kelly Cri­te­rion in 3D

lsusrFeb 20, 2021, 8:21 AM
47 points
18 comments2 min readLW link

The Ineffi­cient Mar­ket Hypothesis

lsusrApr 24, 2020, 7:33 AM
75 points
19 comments2 min readLW link

Look for the Next Tech Gold Rush?

Wei DaiJul 19, 2014, 10:08 AM
71 points
115 comments1 min readLW link

Of ar­gu­ments and wagers

paulfchristianoJan 10, 2020, 10:20 PM
52 points
6 comments6 min readLW link
(ai-alignment.com)

A method for fair bar­gain­ing over odds in 2 player bets!

Agrippa KellumJan 11, 2020, 1:18 AM
13 points
9 comments2 min readLW link

Bets and updating

Eigil RischelOct 7, 2019, 11:06 PM
32 points
5 comments2 min readLW link

Risk aver­sion does not ex­plain peo­ple’s bet­ting behaviours

Stuart_ArmstrongAug 20, 2012, 12:38 PM
29 points
36 comments2 min readLW link

When Is In­surance Worth It?

kqrDec 19, 2024, 7:07 PM
172 points
71 comments4 min readLW link
(entropicthoughts.com)

Bet or up­date: fix­ing the will-to-wa­ger assumption

cousin_itJun 7, 2017, 3:03 PM
62 points
61 comments1 min readLW link

Buy In­surance—Bet Against Yourself

MBlumeNov 26, 2010, 4:48 AM
42 points
69 comments2 min readLW link

The On­line Sports Gam­bling Ex­per­i­ment Has Failed

ZviNov 11, 2024, 2:30 PM
284 points
59 comments11 min readLW link
(thezvi.wordpress.com)

Kelly bettors

DanielFilanNov 13, 2018, 12:40 AM
24 points
3 comments10 min readLW link
(danielfilan.com)

Kelly Bet on Everything

Jacob FalkovichJul 10, 2020, 2:48 AM
101 points
20 comments5 min readLW link2 reviews

Free Money at Pre­dic­tIt?

ZviSep 26, 2019, 4:10 PM
49 points
17 comments6 min readLW link
(thezvi.wordpress.com)

Who wants to be a Million­aire?

BuckyFeb 1, 2019, 2:02 PM
29 points
1 comment11 min readLW link

The Apoca­lypse Bet

Eliezer YudkowskyAug 9, 2007, 5:23 PM
50 points
51 comments1 min readLW link

Should you an­nounce your bets pub­li­cly?

Ege ErdilJul 4, 2023, 12:11 AM
15 points
1 comment4 min readLW link

Note­book for gen­er­at­ing fore­cast­ing bets

AmandangoSep 26, 2020, 8:36 PM
25 points
0 comments1 min readLW link

Bet On Biden

sapphireOct 17, 2020, 10:03 PM
42 points
89 comments2 min readLW link

Kelly Bet or Up­date?

abramdemskiNov 2, 2020, 8:26 PM
50 points
23 comments7 min readLW link

[Question] Is this a good way to bet on short timelines?

Daniel KokotajloNov 28, 2020, 12:51 PM
18 points
7 comments1 min readLW link

[Question] How can I bet on short timelines?

Daniel KokotajloNov 7, 2020, 12:44 PM
43 points
16 comments2 min readLW link

Best effort beliefs

Adam ZernerOct 21, 2023, 10:05 PM
14 points
9 comments4 min readLW link

Calcu­lat­ing Kelly

abramdemskiFeb 22, 2021, 5:32 PM
36 points
18 comments3 min readLW link

Spec­u­la­tions Con­cern­ing the First Free-ish Pre­dic­tion Market

mike_hawkeMar 31, 2021, 3:20 AM
29 points
11 comments2 min readLW link

Pre­dic­tion Mar­kets are for Out­comes Beyond Our Control

lsusrFeb 9, 2022, 9:54 AM
59 points
23 comments1 min readLW link

Bet on Rare Un­de­sir­able Out­comes when Seed­ing a Pre­dic­tion Market

lsusrFeb 10, 2022, 12:20 AM
33 points
8 comments2 min readLW link

Re­ward Good Bets That Had Bad Outcomes

Neel NandaFeb 22, 2022, 12:25 AM
44 points
11 comments8 min readLW link

How to place a bet on the end of the world

DirectedEvolutionApr 20, 2022, 6:24 PM
27 points
12 comments2 min readLW link

The Ca­plan-Yud­kowsky End-of-the-World Bet Scheme Doesn’t Ac­tu­ally Work

lsusrFeb 25, 2023, 6:57 PM
6 points
14 comments2 min readLW link

Con­ced­ing a short timelines bet early

Matthew BarnettMar 16, 2023, 9:49 PM
133 points
17 comments1 min readLW link

Buy Now Or For­ever Hold Your Peace

Eliezer YudkowskyFeb 4, 2008, 9:42 PM
39 points
58 comments1 min readLW link

Ex­pected Value vs. Ex­pected Growth

tom-pollakJun 5, 2022, 6:48 PM
3 points
1 comment2 min readLW link

Mitt Rom­ney’s $10,000 bet

MileyCyrusDec 12, 2011, 2:14 AM
50 points
26 comments1 min readLW link

[Question] Will Orion/​Gem­ini 2/​Llama-4 out­perform o1

LuigiPaganiNov 18, 2024, 9:15 PM
2 points
3 comments1 min readLW link

Alpha

Erich_GrunewaldJul 1, 2023, 4:05 PM
65 points
2 comments14 min readLW link
(www.erichgrunewald.com)

Meetup Notes: Ole Peters on ergodicity

OrbordeNov 3, 2019, 11:31 PM
32 points
13 comments4 min readLW link

A (some­what beta) site for em­bed­ding bet­ting odds in your writing

Optimization ProcessJul 2, 2021, 1:10 AM
51 points
7 comments1 min readLW link
(biatob.com)

How the Equiv­a­lent Bet Test Ac­tu­ally Works

Erich_GrunewaldDec 18, 2021, 11:17 AM
4 points
1 comment4 min readLW link
(www.erichgrunewald.com)

Another UFO Bet

codyzNov 1, 2024, 1:55 AM
9 points
11 comments1 min readLW link

Yet more UFO Bet­ting: Put Up or Shut Up

MoreRatsWrongReUAPAug 8, 2023, 5:50 PM
10 points
18 comments1 min readLW link

A Story of Kings and Spies

Joshua_BlaineJun 11, 2014, 11:54 PM
38 points
33 comments6 min readLW link

Oper­a­tional­iz­ing two tasks in Gary Mar­cus’s AGI challenge

Bill BenzonJun 9, 2022, 6:31 PM
12 points
3 comments8 min readLW link

Pre­dic­tIt: Pres­i­den­tial Mar­ket is In­creas­ingly Wrong

ZviOct 18, 2020, 10:40 PM
37 points
28 comments4 min readLW link
(thezvi.wordpress.com)

Mar­kets Are In­for­ma­tion—Beat­ing the Sports­books at Their Own Game

JJXWNov 7, 2024, 8:58 PM
9 points
1 comment2 min readLW link
(thehobbyist.substack.com)

My Bet Log

philhMar 19, 2020, 9:10 PM
16 points
3 comments2 min readLW link
(reasonableapproximation.net)

[Question] How to Le­gally Con­duct “Ra­tion­al­ist Bets” in Cal­ifor­nia?

Davis_KingsleyFeb 9, 2022, 8:16 AM
9 points
8 comments1 min readLW link

On­go­ing free money at PredictIt

kniteNov 11, 2020, 4:06 AM
12 points
23 comments1 min readLW link

Wanna bet?

ThomasJOct 9, 2022, 9:26 PM
4 points
2 comments2 min readLW link

Austin LW meetup notes: The FTX Affair

jchanNov 22, 2022, 2:01 PM
20 points
3 comments16 min readLW link

[Question] Recom­men­da­tion for a good in­ter­na­tional event bet­ting site like pre­dic­tit.org

df fdDec 7, 2020, 9:09 AM
6 points
2 comments1 min readLW link

[link] Bet­ting on bad futures

fortyeridaniaSep 22, 2012, 3:50 PM
27 points
20 comments1 min readLW link

IMO challenge bet with Eliezer

paulfchristianoFeb 26, 2022, 4:50 AM
179 points
26 comments3 min readLW link

Rashomon—A news­bet­ting site

ideastheteOct 15, 2024, 6:15 PM
23 points
8 comments1 min readLW link

“New­ton’s laws” of finance

pchvykovJun 21, 2024, 9:41 AM
9 points
3 comments10 min readLW link

Who wants to bet me $25k at 1:7 odds that there won’t be an AI mar­ket crash in the next year?

RemmeltApr 8, 2025, 8:31 AM
30 points
15 comments1 min readLW link

Kelly isn’t (just) about log­a­r­ith­mic utility

SimonMFeb 23, 2021, 12:12 PM
35 points
41 comments4 min readLW link

Kelly *is* (just) about log­a­r­ith­mic utility

abramdemskiMar 1, 2021, 8:02 PM
99 points
26 comments12 min readLW link1 review

A non-log­a­r­ith­mic ar­gu­ment for Kelly

BunthutMar 4, 2021, 4:21 PM
24 points
10 comments2 min readLW link

Spirits vs Terms as Ar­bi­tra­tion Norms

raiMar 18, 2021, 5:07 AM
20 points
0 comments2 min readLW link

Kelly Bet­ting Discussion

RaemonMar 12, 2021, 12:10 AM
20 points
1 comment1 min readLW link

The EMH is False—Spe­cific Strong Evidence

sapphireMar 18, 2021, 6:38 PM
62 points
83 comments6 min readLW link

En­courag­ing New Users To Bet On Their Beliefs

YafahEdelmanApr 18, 2023, 10:10 PM
49 points
8 comments2 min readLW link

An­throp­i­cal Para­doxes are Para­doxes of Prob­a­bil­ity Theory

Ape in the coatDec 6, 2023, 8:16 AM
55 points
18 comments5 min readLW link

money ≠ value

stoneflyApr 30, 2023, 5:47 PM
2 points
3 comments3 min readLW link

Vio­lat­ing the EMH—Pre­dic­tion Markets

sapphireMar 28, 2021, 4:05 AM
40 points
9 comments4 min readLW link

If a tree falls on Sleep­ing Beauty...

ataNov 12, 2010, 1:14 AM
147 points
28 comments8 min readLW link

Com­pet­i­tive Truth-Seeking

SatvikBeriNov 1, 2017, 12:06 PM
62 points
7 comments1 min readLW link

Zero­ing Out

ZviNov 5, 2017, 4:10 PM
55 points
8 comments4 min readLW link
(thezvi.wordpress.com)

Tech­niques for prob­a­bil­ity estimates

Scott AlexanderJan 4, 2011, 11:38 PM
113 points
60 comments7 min readLW link

On Robin Han­son’s Board Game

ZviSep 8, 2018, 5:10 PM
49 points
15 comments17 min readLW link
(thezvi.wordpress.com)

The Art of the Overbet

ZviOct 19, 2018, 2:00 PM
53 points
6 comments6 min readLW link
(thezvi.wordpress.com)

1001 Pre­dic­tionBook Nights

gwernOct 8, 2011, 4:04 PM
72 points
49 comments1 min readLW link

Beyond ELO: Re­think­ing Chess Skill as a Mul­tidi­men­sional Ran­dom Variable

Oliver OswaldFeb 10, 2025, 7:19 PM
6 points
7 comments2 min readLW link

Bet Pay­off 1: OpenPhil/​MIRI Grant Increase

Ben PaceNov 9, 2017, 6:31 PM
15 points
11 comments1 min readLW link

An in­vest­ment anal­ogy for Pas­cal’s Mugging

[deleted]Dec 9, 2014, 7:50 AM
9 points
36 comments1 min readLW link

I bet $500 on AI win­ning the IMO gold medal by 2026

azsantoskMay 11, 2023, 2:46 PM
37 points
29 comments1 min readLW link

Limits of Cur­rent US Pre­dic­tion Mar­kets (Pre­dic­tIt Case Study)

aphyerJul 14, 2020, 7:24 AM
210 points
50 comments7 min readLW link

Ra­tion­al­ism and so­cial rationalism

philosophybearMar 10, 2023, 11:20 PM
17 points
5 comments10 min readLW link
(philosophybear.substack.com)

Pre­dic­tionBook.com—Track your calibration

Eliezer YudkowskyOct 14, 2009, 12:08 AM
41 points
53 comments1 min readLW link
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