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Disagreement

TagLast edit: Dec 24, 2024, 2:41 AM by Martin Randall

Disagreement is when two people have different beliefs.

Aumann’s Agreement Theorem

Considered of particular relevance to disagreement between people trying to be rational, Aumann’s agreement theorem can be informally interpreted as suggesting that if two people are honest seekers of truth, and both believe each other to be honest, then they should update on each other’s opinions and quickly reach agreement. The very fact that a person believes something is Rational evidence that that something is true, and so this fact should be taken into account when forming your belief.

Outside of well-functioning prediction markets, Aumann agreement can probably only be approximated by careful deliberative discourse. Interest in Aumann agreement has waned in recent years within the Rationalist community, perhaps out of a sense Aumann agreement cannot be practically achieved by humans – there is too much background information to be exchanged. Instead, people now focus on things more like Double-Crux

External Posts

See also

References

(PDF, Talk video)

“Ra­tion­al­ist Dis­course” Is Like “Physi­cist Mo­tors”

Zack_M_DavisFeb 26, 2023, 5:58 AM
136 points
153 comments9 min readLW link1 review

Notic­ing Frame Differences

RaemonSep 30, 2019, 1:24 AM
218 points
40 comments9 min readLW link2 reviews

Prin­ci­ples of Disagreement

Eliezer YudkowskyJun 2, 2008, 7:04 AM
20 points
26 comments8 min readLW link

Dou­ble Crux — A Strat­egy for Mu­tual Understanding

Duncan Sabien (Deactivated)Jan 2, 2017, 4:37 AM
193 points
108 comments12 min readLW link

As­sume Bad Faith

Zack_M_DavisAug 25, 2023, 5:36 PM
150 points
63 comments7 min readLW link3 reviews

Va­ri­eties Of Ar­gu­men­ta­tive Experience

Scott AlexanderMay 8, 2018, 8:20 AM
101 points
11 comments18 min readLW link2 reviews
(slatestarcodex.com)

Gen­er­a­tors Of Disagree­ment With AI Alignment

George3d6Sep 7, 2022, 6:15 PM
27 points
9 comments9 min readLW link
(www.epistem.ink)

Re­ply to Dun­can Sa­bien on Strawmanning

Zack_M_DavisFeb 3, 2023, 5:57 PM
42 points
11 comments4 min readLW link

The Ba­sic Dou­ble Crux pattern

Eli TyreJul 22, 2020, 6:41 AM
68 points
21 comments4 min readLW link

Choos­ing bat­tles (on the In­ter­net)

PatrickDFarleyJan 20, 2022, 3:38 PM
24 points
2 comments4 min readLW link

Up­dated Hier­ar­chy of Disagreement

B JacobsMay 28, 2020, 3:57 PM
14 points
13 comments2 min readLW link

The Rhythm of Disagreement

Eliezer YudkowskyJun 1, 2008, 8:18 PM
24 points
65 comments8 min readLW link

Do you fear the rock or the hard place?

RubyJul 20, 2019, 10:01 PM
77 points
10 comments5 min readLW link3 reviews

Tak­ing it Pri­vate: Short Cir­cuit­ing De­mon Threads (work­ing ex­am­ple)

RaemonJan 22, 2018, 12:37 AM
24 points
70 comments5 min readLW link

Rev­er­sal Tests in Ar­gu­ment and Debate

Davis_KingsleySep 13, 2019, 9:18 AM
32 points
2 comments1 min readLW link

Causes of disagreements

JustinShovelainJul 16, 2009, 9:51 PM
32 points
20 comments4 min readLW link

Bet­ter Disagreement

lukeprogOct 24, 2011, 9:13 PM
90 points
84 comments4 min readLW link

Ac­cord­ing to Dale Carnegie, You Can’t Win an Ar­gu­ment—and He Has a Point

ChrisHallquistNov 30, 2013, 6:23 AM
112 points
80 comments5 min readLW link

Com­ment on “En­doge­nous Epistemic Fac­tion­al­iza­tion”

Zack_M_DavisMay 20, 2020, 6:04 PM
158 points
8 comments7 min readLW link

Don’t Dou­ble-Crux With Suicide Rock

Zack_M_DavisJan 1, 2020, 7:02 PM
91 points
30 comments2 min readLW link

The Modesty Argument

Eliezer YudkowskyDec 10, 2006, 9:42 PM
59 points
40 comments10 min readLW link

Ci­vil­ity Is Never Neutral

ozymandiasNov 22, 2017, 4:54 PM
57 points
15 comments4 min readLW link

Bayesian up­dat­ing in real life is mostly about un­der­stand­ing your hypotheses

Max HJan 1, 2024, 12:10 AM
63 points
4 comments11 min readLW link

On the Con­trary, Steel­man­ning Is Nor­mal; ITT-Pass­ing Is Niche

Zack_M_DavisJan 9, 2024, 11:12 PM
45 points
31 comments4 min readLW link

A Sketch of Good Communication

Ben PaceMar 31, 2018, 10:48 PM
207 points
36 comments3 min readLW link1 review

“Char­ity” as a con­fla­tion­ary al­li­ance term

Jan_KulveitDec 12, 2024, 9:49 PM
34 points
2 comments5 min readLW link

The Xerox Parc/​ARPA ver­sion of the in­tel­lec­tual Tur­ing test: Class 1 vs Class 2 disagreement

hamishtodd1Jun 30, 2024, 3:34 PM
6 points
3 comments1 min readLW link

My dis­agree­ments with “AGI ruin: A List of Lethal­ities”

Noosphere89Sep 15, 2024, 5:22 PM
36 points
46 comments18 min readLW link

Ba­sics of Han­dling Disagree­ments with People

Camille Berger Nov 12, 2024, 5:55 PM
34 points
4 comments6 min readLW link

A hi­er­ar­chy of disagreement

Adam ZernerJan 23, 2025, 3:17 AM
21 points
4 comments8 min readLW link

Any-Benefit Mind­set and Any-Rea­son Reasoning

silentbobMar 15, 2025, 5:10 PM
36 points
9 comments6 min readLW link

AXRP Epi­sode 3 - Ne­go­tiable Re­in­force­ment Learn­ing with An­drew Critch

DanielFilanDec 29, 2020, 8:45 PM
27 points
0 comments28 min readLW link

A decade of lurk­ing, a month of posting

Max HApr 9, 2023, 12:21 AM
70 points
4 comments5 min readLW link

On “aiming for con­ver­gence on truth”

gjmApr 11, 2023, 6:19 PM
67 points
55 comments13 min readLW link

Prac­ti­cal Con­flict Re­s­olu­tion: A Tax­on­omy of Disagreement

eapacheJun 19, 2020, 2:25 AM
12 points
8 comments10 min readLW link

A Prac­ti­cal Guide to Con­flict Re­s­olu­tion: Comprehension

eapacheJun 13, 2020, 3:08 PM
30 points
0 comments4 min readLW link

Creat­ing bet­ter in­fras­truc­ture for con­tro­ver­sial dis­course

Rudi CJun 16, 2020, 3:17 PM
66 points
11 comments2 min readLW link

Ta­boo Your Words

Eliezer YudkowskyFeb 15, 2008, 10:53 PM
284 points
133 comments3 min readLW link

In­tu­itive differ­ences: when to agree to disagree

Kaj_SotalaSep 29, 2009, 7:56 AM
35 points
36 comments4 min readLW link

Ba­sic Con­ver­sa­tional Co­or­di­na­tion: Micro-co­or­di­na­tion of In­ten­tion

Eli TyreJul 27, 2020, 10:41 PM
41 points
7 comments2 min readLW link

Karate Kid and Real­is­tic Ex­pec­ta­tions for Disagree­ment Resolution

RaemonDec 4, 2019, 11:25 PM
103 points
23 comments4 min readLW link

De­bate Rules In Ben­jamin Fran­klin’s Junto

namespaceOct 30, 2018, 11:42 PM
77 points
8 comments1 min readLW link

High-pre­ci­sion claims may be re­futed with­out be­ing re­placed with other high-pre­ci­sion claims

jessicataJan 30, 2020, 11:08 PM
56 points
31 comments3 min readLW link
(unstableontology.com)

The Right to be Wrong

sarahconstantinNov 28, 2017, 11:43 PM
48 points
9 comments6 min readLW link

Bet­ter debates

TsviBTMay 10, 2023, 7:34 PM
78 points
7 comments3 min readLW link

It is OK to pub­li­cly make a mis­take and change your mind

JGWeissmanApr 12, 2011, 1:24 AM
91 points
13 comments1 min readLW link

6 Tips for Pro­duc­tive Arguments

John_MaxwellMar 18, 2012, 9:02 PM
44 points
122 comments5 min readLW link

The Me­chan­ics of Disagreement

Eliezer YudkowskyDec 10, 2008, 2:01 PM
14 points
26 comments4 min readLW link

Self-con­scious­ness wants to make ev­ery­thing about itself

jessicataJul 3, 2019, 1:44 AM
44 points
70 comments6 min readLW link
(unstableontology.com)

Nav­i­gat­ing dis­agree­ment: How to keep your eye on the ev­i­dence

AnnaSalamonApr 24, 2010, 10:47 PM
47 points
73 comments6 min readLW link

[Question] Books/​Liter­a­ture on re­solv­ing tech­ni­cal dis­agree­ments?

HazardNov 14, 2019, 5:30 PM
13 points
9 comments1 min readLW link

Hufflepuff Cyn­i­cism on Crocker’s Rule

abramdemskiFeb 14, 2018, 12:52 AM
16 points
11 comments2 min readLW link

On Disingenuity

Chris_LeongDec 26, 2018, 5:08 PM
28 points
3 comments1 min readLW link

Change Con­texts to Im­prove Arguments

palladiasJul 8, 2014, 3:51 PM
42 points
19 comments2 min readLW link

Au­mann-agree­ment is common

tailcalledAug 26, 2023, 8:22 PM
71 points
33 comments7 min readLW link1 review

Reach­a­bil­ity De­bates (Are Often In­visi­ble)

J BostockSep 27, 2021, 10:05 PM
17 points
8 comments2 min readLW link

Ex­plain­ing Cap­i­tal­ism Harder

jefftkOct 17, 2021, 2:40 AM
110 points
12 comments1 min readLW link
(www.jefftk.com)

But­terfly Ideas

ElizabethFeb 22, 2022, 7:40 AM
200 points
10 comments3 min readLW link2 reviews
(acesounderglass.com)

Deferring

owencbMay 12, 2022, 11:56 PM
18 points
2 comments11 min readLW link

Con­sider your ap­petite for disagreements

Adam ZernerOct 8, 2022, 11:25 PM
107 points
18 comments6 min readLW link1 review

[Question] What is a dis­agree­ment you have around AI safety?

tailcalledJan 12, 2023, 4:58 PM
16 points
7 comments1 min readLW link

Aiming for Con­ver­gence Is Like Dis­cour­ag­ing Betting

Zack_M_DavisFeb 1, 2023, 12:03 AM
62 points
18 comments11 min readLW link1 review

Hash­ing out long-stand­ing dis­agree­ments seems low-value to me

So8resFeb 16, 2023, 6:20 AM
141 points
34 comments4 min readLW link

Fun­da­men­tal Uncer­tainty: Chap­ter 3 - Why don’t we agree on what’s right?

Gordon Seidoh WorleyJun 25, 2022, 5:50 PM
27 points
22 comments14 min readLW link

Suggest­ing some re­vi­sions to Gra­ham’s hi­er­ar­chy of disagreement

SniffnoyApr 2, 2025, 10:25 PM
8 points
2 comments2 min readLW link

Bio­con­ser­va­tive and bio­mod­er­ate sin­gu­lar­i­tar­ian positions

RokoJun 2, 2009, 1:19 PM
13 points
53 comments3 min readLW link

Form Your Own Opinions

Ben PaceApr 28, 2018, 7:50 PM
34 points
1 comment4 min readLW link

Diffus­ing “I can’t be that stupid”

HazardMar 24, 2018, 2:49 PM
23 points
5 comments2 min readLW link

False Friends and Tone Policing

palladiasJun 18, 2014, 6:20 PM
71 points
49 comments3 min readLW link

Fas­cists and Rakes

philhJan 5, 2014, 12:41 AM
58 points
71 comments2 min readLW link

Un­der-ac­knowl­edged Value Differences

Wei DaiSep 12, 2012, 10:02 PM
70 points
68 comments1 min readLW link

Change A View: An in­ter­est­ing on­line community

habrykaApr 30, 2019, 6:34 PM
52 points
6 comments1 min readLW link
(changeaview.com)

Nice­ness Stealth-Bombing

things_which_are_not_on_fireJan 8, 2018, 10:16 PM
25 points
4 comments3 min readLW link

The Epistemic Pri­soner’s Dilemma

MBlumeApr 18, 2009, 5:36 AM
114 points
46 comments2 min readLW link

Ar­gu­ing from a Gap of Perspective

ideenrunMay 1, 2021, 10:42 PM
6 points
1 comment19 min readLW link

An­nounc­ing the Dou­ble Crux Bot

Jan 9, 2024, 6:54 PM
53 points
10 comments3 min readLW link

What mis­takes has the AI safety move­ment made?

EuanMcLeanMay 23, 2024, 11:19 AM
64 points
29 comments12 min readLW link

Agree, Re­tort, or Ig­nore? A Post From the Future

Wei DaiNov 24, 2009, 10:29 PM
39 points
87 comments2 min readLW link

Strength­en­ing the foun­da­tions un­der the Over­ton Win­dow with­out mov­ing it

KatjaGraceMar 14, 2018, 2:20 AM
12 points
7 comments3 min readLW link
(meteuphoric.wordpress.com)

[Question] Trans­fer­ring cre­dence with­out trans­fer­ring ev­i­dence?

KaarelFeb 4, 2022, 8:11 AM
11 points
6 comments3 min readLW link

You’re never wrong in­ject­ing com­plex­ity, but rarely you’re right

MrMindOct 3, 2018, 2:20 PM
36 points
6 comments2 min readLW link

Rare Ex­cep­tion or Com­mon Exception

weftOct 13, 2017, 10:02 PM
14 points
3 comments1 min readLW link

In Defense of Epistemic Em­pa­thy

Kevin DorstDec 27, 2023, 4:27 PM
60 points
19 comments6 min readLW link
(kevindorst.substack.com)

Real­ity is Frac­tal-Shaped

silentbobDec 17, 2024, 1:52 PM
18 points
1 comment8 min readLW link

Iter­a­tive Ar­gu­ments: Alter­na­tive to Ad­ver­sar­ial Collaboration

matsnSep 12, 2018, 3:56 PM
27 points
9 comments1 min readLW link

A Quick On­tol­ogy of Agreement

ravedonJun 26, 2022, 5:39 PM
5 points
2 comments2 min readLW link

Six Ways To Get Along With Peo­ple Who Are To­tally Wrong*

RobertWiblinMay 27, 2015, 12:37 PM
38 points
43 comments5 min readLW link

Effec­tively Han­dling Disagree­ments—In­tro­duc­ing a New Workshop

Camille Berger Apr 15, 2024, 4:33 PM
37 points
2 comments7 min readLW link

Flow­sheet Logic and Note­card Logic

moridinamaelSep 9, 2015, 4:42 PM
46 points
28 comments3 min readLW link

The Sin of Persuasion

DesrtopaNov 27, 2010, 9:44 PM
37 points
63 comments2 min readLW link

Blind Goal­ten­ders: Un­pro­duc­tive Disagreements

PDVSep 28, 2017, 4:19 PM
19 points
8 comments2 min readLW link

Mal­ice, Stu­pidity, or Egal­ité Ir­réfléchie?

lionhearted (Sebastian Marshall)Jun 13, 2011, 8:57 PM
32 points
62 comments2 min readLW link

Inex­is­tence of Ra­tional Disagree­ment when In­for­ma­tion can be Freely Exchanged

CheopsMar 28, 2024, 12:40 PM
−5 points
3 comments1 min readLW link

Hot Air Doesn’t Disagree

Eliezer YudkowskyAug 16, 2008, 12:42 AM
15 points
45 comments3 min readLW link

Wise Preten­sions v.0

Eliezer YudkowskyFeb 20, 2009, 5:02 PM
15 points
23 comments5 min readLW link

The Mis­take Script

jimrandomhMar 9, 2009, 5:35 PM
12 points
14 comments3 min readLW link

Ide­olog­i­cal Bayesians

Kevin DorstFeb 25, 2024, 2:17 PM
96 points
4 comments10 min readLW link
(kevindorst.substack.com)

Oc­cupy Wall Street: Pre­dic­tions, Speculations

byrnemaOct 19, 2011, 12:44 AM
−8 points
43 comments1 min readLW link

Fic­tion of interest

dclayhApr 29, 2009, 6:47 PM
14 points
16 comments1 min readLW link

Sport­ing vs. Herd­ing: two styles of discourse

Suspended ReasonJul 25, 2020, 1:56 AM
5 points
4 comments9 min readLW link

Po­lariza­tion is Not (Stan­dard) Bayesian

Kevin DorstSep 16, 2023, 4:31 PM
11 points
6 comments7 min readLW link
(kevindorst.substack.com)

Why We Disagree

zulupineappleOct 25, 2023, 10:50 AM
7 points
2 comments2 min readLW link

How to use “philo­soph­i­cal ma­jori­tar­i­anism”

jimmyMay 5, 2009, 6:49 AM
13 points
9 comments4 min readLW link

[Question] How to deal with a mis­lead­ing con­fer­ence talk about AI risk?

rmoehnJun 27, 2019, 9:04 PM
21 points
12 comments4 min readLW link

In­con­ve­nience Is Qual­i­ta­tively Bad

AlicornFeb 26, 2018, 11:27 PM
83 points
52 comments2 min readLW link

How to Not Lose an Argument

Scott AlexanderMar 19, 2009, 1:07 AM
164 points
416 comments6 min readLW link

Meta-tations on Moder­a­tion: Towards Public Archipelago

RaemonFeb 25, 2018, 3:59 AM
81 points
176 comments23 min readLW link

The Power to De­mol­ish Bad Arguments

LironSep 2, 2019, 12:57 PM
100 points
84 comments11 min readLW link6 reviews

The prob­lem with too many ra­tio­nal memes

Swimmer963 (Miranda Dixon-Luinenburg) Jan 19, 2012, 12:56 AM
122 points
342 comments3 min readLW link

Ar­gu­ment, in­tu­ition, and recursion

paulfchristianoMar 5, 2018, 1:37 AM
44 points
13 comments9 min readLW link1 review

Seek Fair Ex­pec­ta­tions of Others’ Models

ZviOct 17, 2017, 2:30 PM
60 points
17 comments9 min readLW link
(thezvi.wordpress.com)

Against Modest Epistemology

Eliezer YudkowskyNov 14, 2017, 8:40 PM
71 points
48 comments15 min readLW link

The Tale of Alice Al­most: Strate­gies for Deal­ing With Pretty Good People

sarahconstantinFeb 27, 2019, 7:34 PM
117 points
6 comments6 min readLW link2 reviews
(srconstantin.wordpress.com)

Proofs, Im­pli­ca­tions, and Models

Eliezer YudkowskyOct 30, 2012, 1:02 PM
131 points
218 comments12 min readLW link

Bayesian Judo

Eliezer YudkowskyJul 31, 2007, 5:53 AM
90 points
110 comments1 min readLW link

Fre­quen­tist Statis­tics are Fre­quently Subjective

Eliezer YudkowskyDec 4, 2009, 8:22 PM
87 points
82 comments8 min readLW link

Dissent­ing Views

byrnemaMay 26, 2009, 6:55 PM
22 points
212 comments2 min readLW link

Let Them De­bate Col­lege Students

Eliezer YudkowskySep 9, 2009, 6:15 PM
88 points
144 comments2 min readLW link

Dishon­est Up­date Reporting

ZviMay 4, 2019, 2:10 PM
61 points
27 comments6 min readLW link2 reviews
(thezvi.wordpress.com)

A so­cial norm against un­jus­tified opinions?

Kaj_SotalaMay 29, 2009, 11:25 AM
16 points
161 comments1 min readLW link

The Onion Goes In­side The Bi­ased Mind

patrissimoMay 30, 2009, 5:33 PM
8 points
3 comments1 min readLW link

Rea­son­ing isn’t about logic (it’s about ar­gu­ing)

MorendilMar 14, 2010, 4:42 AM
66 points
31 comments3 min readLW link

Why There Is No An­swer to Your Philo­soph­i­cal Question

Bryan FrancesMar 24, 2023, 11:22 PM
−12 points
10 comments12 min readLW link

Can you elimi­nate memetic scarcity, in­stead of fight­ing?

RaemonNov 25, 2019, 2:07 AM
71 points
11 comments4 min readLW link

Em­brac­ing the Op­po­si­tion’s Point

YuliaAug 21, 2022, 9:51 AM
21 points
14 comments5 min readLW link
(yuliaverse.substack.com)