Chapter 54: why don’t Harry and Quirrell cast Somnium on Bellatrix instead of deceiving her? (The deception requires Quirrell to tell Harry the Death Eater password, among other things...) Why does Quirrell talk to Bahry so confidently while Bellatrix can hear him? Why does he follow his whims to play-duel and then kill Bahry instead of quickly subduing and memory-charming him, if they planned to pull off the perfect crime? Why is he so vulnerable to Dementors that he drops immediately when Harry’s Patronus vanishes, even though Bahry’s Patronus is still there successfully protecting Bahry and Harry? (Or am I misunderstanding the reason for his screaming? It’s very similar to Harry’s screaming when he first encountered a Dementor. If the screaming were caused by Quirrell’s spell coming in contact with Harry’s—brother wands or whatever—then Harry should’ve felt a symmetrical effect, which he didn’t.)
Also, am I the only one stupid enough to only now realize that the professor’s name is Quivering Squirrel?
why don’t Harry and Quirrell cast Somnium on Bellatrix instead of deceiving her? (The deception requires Quirrell to tell Harry the Death Eater password, among other things...) Why does Quirrell talk to Bahry so confidently while Bellatrix can hear him? Why does he follow his whims to play-duel and then kill Bahry instead of quickly subduing and memory-charming him, if they planned to pull off the perfect crime?
That reminds me of something else Quirrell arranged for Harry—occlumency. If they read Bella’s and the Auror’s mind, they’ll see Harry as a villain, and since Harry has training in occlumency, he’s no way to prove them wrong. The entire thing looks like a set-up.
Oh, you’re quite right. Perhaps Quirrel was planning to kill the Auror to make it clear that a break-out had occurred? That way, a full check of the prison would occur and Bella’s replacement would likely be found. Which in turn would mean that it was put there simply to deceive Harry into a false sense of security. When the break in is made public, Dumbledore would naturally come under suspicion (since a Dementor disappeared under his watch) and he would suspect Harry. That might also explain the lack of the 30th charm by Quirrel. Might make Harry traceable.
I could be completely wrong, of course. Pure speculation.
The Auror saw Quirrell fight him with amazing skill, attempt the killing curse, and turn into a snake. Harry saved him from the killing curse. Quirrell’s the clear bad guy from his point of view (is that enough evidence for people to conclude that Q=V?), and only Harry’s last Somnium spoils his innocence.
It will also be clear that they were lying to Bella, at least about some important things, since it was Harry’s Patronus.
I’m pretty sure I’m being exceedingly careful here, but...
is that enough evidence for people to conclude that Q=V?
It’s enough evidence to conclude that he’s a bad guy.
Assuming I had never read Eliezer’s assurances that Q=V, I would most definitely not put it past him to make his rewriting of HP not so much about the Dumbleharry vs. Voldemort war, but about the internecine fight between Quirrell/ColdHarry and Dumbledore/WarmHarry about how to confront the Voldemort threat—by finding a worthy dictator (in the original intent of the word, hopefully) or by making free citizens, I mean subjects of Her Majesty stand up for themselves. Each of them convinced that fighting Voldemort by the other’s means would be as bad or worse than giving up; each of them wondering how much can they scheme and sacrifice, how close can they come to Voldemort’s methods in order to successfully lead the fight against him… damn, speculating about it makes me want to read it already, no matter all the stuff that doesn’t quite work with this scenario (sense of doom in primis).
I mean: Is it enough evidence for people within the story to conclude that he is Voldemort? Being a ridiculously powerful dark wizard should be enough for them to locate the hypothesis and consider it a possibility, at least for those who know that Voldemort is alive. Then there are other clues: his attempt (with Harry) to free Bellatrix Black, knowledge of the Death Eater password (among him & Harry), his strange relationship with Harry Potter (including the odd magical interaction & Harry’s sense of doom), and his ability to turn into a snake. Is that enough evidence to convince someone like Dumbledore who already knows that the Dark Lord lives? Is it enough for the rest of the wizarding world to be persuaded?
that depends on whether they still trust harry after this… If he gets out Draco is going to figure it out for sure, dumbledore and mcgonagal I am not certain about, and the wizarding world in general? I would say not a chance, but it opens up some interesting possibilities for the story if the wizarding war erupts out of nowhere again so quickly.
How about: Should Harry have trusted Quirrell? I don’t mean “did it have a good outcome”; I mean, was Harry’s trust justified by what he knew? Would you have done the same thing?
In retrospect, I think Harry ought to have said, “Professor Quirrell, I owe you a great debt, and have great respect for you. If you ask me to do something, I’ll probably do it. But I don’t trust you one single bit.” But I doubt I would have said that myself.
Why does he follow his whims to play-duel and then kill Bahry instead of quickly subduing and memory-charming him,
Presumably, as I mentioned below, for the stated reason that “‘It’s been quite a while since I had a serious fight with a serious opponent’” As Quirrel himself said earlier, if you can’t have some fun once in a while, what’s the point?
Why is he so vulnerable to Dementors that he drops immediately when Harry’s Patronus vanishes, even though Bahry’s Patronus is still there successfully protecting Bahry and Harry? (Or am I misunderstanding the reason for his screaming? It’s very similar to Harry’s screaming when he first encountered a Dementor. If the screaming were caused by Quirrell’s spell coming in contact with Harry’s—brother wands or whatever—then Harry should’ve felt a symmetrical effect, which he didn’t.)
It was caused by the spell contact. Harry was also screaming (Bahry’s POV mentions hearing this). He was probably less affected than Quirrel because he was much farther away.
Case in point: Quirrel had spent about a minute in Azkaban (top floor) without any Patronus, until Harry arrived, and all that happened was that he had to lean on the wall for a bit to recover.
Naw, Quirrell spent that minute in his snake form because it’s less vulnerable to Dementors, and when disaster struck he threw away his wand (recall how Harry got attacked through his wand) and assumed snake form again, probably as a last ditch defense. So I’m not sure if your final point supports your conclusion or mine.
And Harry was probably screaming just because he was scared.
ETA: I just realized another funny thing. As Quirrell is an unregistered Animagus and Bahry saw him transform, in the aftermath he’ll be going to Azkaban for two years unless something unusual happens.
ETA: I just realized another funny thing. As Quirrell is an unregistered Animagus and Bahry saw him transform, in the aftermath he’ll be going to Azkaban for two years unless something unusual happens.
“And then it was already too late” prompts in the text suggest that Quirrell died (and probably won’t revive himself as Quirrell again).
Edit: This seems to be an inference from incorrect assumption, correction here.
The most direct interpretation of “it was too late” is that Harry’s Patronus was down long enough for the Dementors to find them and see Bellatrix had escaped.
The fear of dementors isn’t Quirrel’s problem, it’s that his spell and Harry’s touched. He threw away his wand to stop the magical cascade, and Harry was screaming because he felt the same thing, but didn’t understand it as quickly as Quirrel did.
Note that on Quirrell’s “Evil Overlord List”, Rule 34 (“I will not turn into a snake. It never helps.”) has been replaced by (translated from Parseltongue) “Become Animaguss. All ssensible people do, if can. Thuss, very rare.” (Per chapter 49)
Note that on Quirrell’s “Evil Overlord List”, Rule 34 (“I will not turn into a snake. It never helps.”) has been replaced by (translated from Parseltongue) “Become Animaguss. All ssensible people do, if can. Thuss, very rare.” (Per chapter 49)
I don’t know why he turned back into a snake; others have suggested he’s less susceptible to Dementor influence in that case. It is also possible that his alternate form was some kind of magic done to his snake form, and that he simply reverted to snake form on losing control of whatever was producing his fake human form.
That throwing away the wand is helpful was suggested by the previous incident with the dementors and Harry’s wand.
Actually, it’s possible that 1) he needed to throw the wand away to stop the cascade, but 2) became a snake to avoid any Dementor influence happening by way of the wand. He may also have felt that Bellatrix would be less likely to kill Voldemort’s favorite snake than some random human tool/servant of his.
I don’t see this interpretation as plausible, too much implied drama for such an insignificant event in context (as more evidence, “last seconds tickling away” is a death metaphor). Dementors alerting Aurors about the escape is just the last nail in the coffin.
No, it’s the last seconds ticking away for a successful escape attempt- if Harry had put up his Patronus, there might have been time for Quirrell to recover, use a Memory Charm on the Auror, and abscond with BB without raising the alarm.
I now see that as more plausible than originally (having learned that my interpretation is not obvious to others), but remain uncertain and favoring the hypothesis of Quirrell having died. We’ll see what was actually intended.
...and if I replace my previous assumption that Quirrell collapsed as a direct result of Dementor influence that was opened by disappearance of Potter’s Patronus, with the much more plausible assumption that he collapsed because of magic incompatibility with Potter’s Patronus of the same nature as what killed him the first time, and only additionally suffered from Dementors, then it doesn’t follow that Dementors cause overwhelming harm, and so that prolonged exposure leads to death. This also explains throwing away the wand: make own magic weaker to reduce the effect of magical incompatibility.
Thus, now the hypothesis that Quirrell died seems less plausible than the alternative.
Really? I think it suggested that it was now too late for Dark Lord Harry to return to being Good Lad Harry without external intervention, a la kiss. He’s in too dark a place to think Happy Thoughts.
Chapter 54: why don’t Harry and Quirrell cast Somnium on Bellatrix instead of deceiving her? (The deception requires Quirrell to tell Harry the Death Eater password, among other things...) Why does Quirrell talk to Bahry so confidently while Bellatrix can hear him? Why does he follow his whims to play-duel and then kill Bahry instead of quickly subduing and memory-charming him, if they planned to pull off the perfect crime? Why is he so vulnerable to Dementors that he drops immediately when Harry’s Patronus vanishes, even though Bahry’s Patronus is still there successfully protecting Bahry and Harry? (Or am I misunderstanding the reason for his screaming? It’s very similar to Harry’s screaming when he first encountered a Dementor. If the screaming were caused by Quirrell’s spell coming in contact with Harry’s—brother wands or whatever—then Harry should’ve felt a symmetrical effect, which he didn’t.)
Also, am I the only one stupid enough to only now realize that the professor’s name is Quivering Squirrel?
That reminds me of something else Quirrell arranged for Harry—occlumency. If they read Bella’s and the Auror’s mind, they’ll see Harry as a villain, and since Harry has training in occlumency, he’s no way to prove them wrong. The entire thing looks like a set-up.
Harry didn’t even consciously try to stop Quirrel’s killing curse. It was an accident. Quirrel couldn’t have counted on it happening to set Harry up.
Oh, you’re quite right. Perhaps Quirrel was planning to kill the Auror to make it clear that a break-out had occurred? That way, a full check of the prison would occur and Bella’s replacement would likely be found. Which in turn would mean that it was put there simply to deceive Harry into a false sense of security. When the break in is made public, Dumbledore would naturally come under suspicion (since a Dementor disappeared under his watch) and he would suspect Harry. That might also explain the lack of the 30th charm by Quirrel. Might make Harry traceable.
I could be completely wrong, of course. Pure speculation.
The Auror saw Quirrell fight him with amazing skill, attempt the killing curse, and turn into a snake. Harry saved him from the killing curse. Quirrell’s the clear bad guy from his point of view (is that enough evidence for people to conclude that Q=V?), and only Harry’s last Somnium spoils his innocence.
It will also be clear that they were lying to Bella, at least about some important things, since it was Harry’s Patronus.
I’m pretty sure I’m being exceedingly careful here, but...
It’s enough evidence to conclude that he’s a bad guy.
Assuming I had never read Eliezer’s assurances that Q=V, I would most definitely not put it past him to make his rewriting of HP not so much about the Dumbleharry vs. Voldemort war, but about the internecine fight between Quirrell/ColdHarry and Dumbledore/WarmHarry about how to confront the Voldemort threat—by finding a worthy dictator (in the original intent of the word, hopefully) or by making free citizens, I mean subjects of Her Majesty stand up for themselves. Each of them convinced that fighting Voldemort by the other’s means would be as bad or worse than giving up; each of them wondering how much can they scheme and sacrifice, how close can they come to Voldemort’s methods in order to successfully lead the fight against him… damn, speculating about it makes me want to read it already, no matter all the stuff that doesn’t quite work with this scenario (sense of doom in primis).
So write it. Nothing wrong with having an AU of an AU.
I mean: Is it enough evidence for people within the story to conclude that he is Voldemort? Being a ridiculously powerful dark wizard should be enough for them to locate the hypothesis and consider it a possibility, at least for those who know that Voldemort is alive. Then there are other clues: his attempt (with Harry) to free Bellatrix Black, knowledge of the Death Eater password (among him & Harry), his strange relationship with Harry Potter (including the odd magical interaction & Harry’s sense of doom), and his ability to turn into a snake. Is that enough evidence to convince someone like Dumbledore who already knows that the Dark Lord lives? Is it enough for the rest of the wizarding world to be persuaded?
that depends on whether they still trust harry after this… If he gets out Draco is going to figure it out for sure, dumbledore and mcgonagal I am not certain about, and the wizarding world in general? I would say not a chance, but it opens up some interesting possibilities for the story if the wizarding war erupts out of nowhere again so quickly.
Bingo. I think you have it.
How about: Should Harry have trusted Quirrell? I don’t mean “did it have a good outcome”; I mean, was Harry’s trust justified by what he knew? Would you have done the same thing?
In retrospect, I think Harry ought to have said, “Professor Quirrell, I owe you a great debt, and have great respect for you. If you ask me to do something, I’ll probably do it. But I don’t trust you one single bit.” But I doubt I would have said that myself.
Sorry, how does ‘Quirinu‑’ become ‘Quivering’?
Presumably, as I mentioned below, for the stated reason that “‘It’s been quite a while since I had a serious fight with a serious opponent’” As Quirrel himself said earlier, if you can’t have some fun once in a while, what’s the point?
It was caused by the spell contact. Harry was also screaming (Bahry’s POV mentions hearing this). He was probably less affected than Quirrel because he was much farther away.
Case in point: Quirrel had spent about a minute in Azkaban (top floor) without any Patronus, until Harry arrived, and all that happened was that he had to lean on the wall for a bit to recover.
Naw, Quirrell spent that minute in his snake form because it’s less vulnerable to Dementors, and when disaster struck he threw away his wand (recall how Harry got attacked through his wand) and assumed snake form again, probably as a last ditch defense. So I’m not sure if your final point supports your conclusion or mine.
And Harry was probably screaming just because he was scared.
ETA: I just realized another funny thing. As Quirrell is an unregistered Animagus and Bahry saw him transform, in the aftermath he’ll be going to Azkaban for two years unless something unusual happens.
I have very little, if any, idea of what something “usual” would look like under these circumstances.
Polyjuiced Quirrell, mind you.
“And then it was already too late” prompts in the text suggest that Quirrell died (and probably won’t revive himself as Quirrell again).
Edit: This seems to be an inference from incorrect assumption, correction here.
The most direct interpretation of “it was too late” is that Harry’s Patronus was down long enough for the Dementors to find them and see Bellatrix had escaped.
Probably. And with the Aurors coming, Harry won’t have the chance to recast his Patronus before they all find him and give him a good talking-to.
Prediction in rot13: Bs pbhefr, jura gurl neevir, gurer jvyy or rvtug yrffre cngebav xrrcvat gur srne bs qrngu bss Dhveeryy. Vs gur fghaavat fcryy unf jbea bss, naq gur snpg gung ur guerj njnl uvf jnaq naq ghearq vagb n fanxr zrnaf gur qrzragbef ner uvf ceboyrz, abg gur pynfu jvgu Uneel’f zntvp, V cerqvpg fbzr irel vagrerfgvat guvatf jvyy unccra. Zbfgyl rcvp cjantr. Rvtug vf rabhtu, evtug?
The fear of dementors isn’t Quirrel’s problem, it’s that his spell and Harry’s touched. He threw away his wand to stop the magical cascade, and Harry was screaming because he felt the same thing, but didn’t understand it as quickly as Quirrel did.
Does that also explain why he turned back into a snake? I must have missed where that and throwing away a wand can help with a magical cascade.
It will be aesthetically unsatisfying if turning into a snake helps.
Note that on Quirrell’s “Evil Overlord List”, Rule 34 (“I will not turn into a snake. It never helps.”) has been replaced by (translated from Parseltongue) “Become Animaguss. All ssensible people do, if can. Thuss, very rare.” (Per chapter 49)
Or, “I will turn into a snake. It always helps.”
It’s a weird coincidence that the rule would have number 34.
Well, there are more than 33 rules. It’s not a particularly weird coincidence.
Not weird, perhaps, but rule 34 on Quirrel’s snake form is certainly creepy.
I don’t know why he turned back into a snake; others have suggested he’s less susceptible to Dementor influence in that case. It is also possible that his alternate form was some kind of magic done to his snake form, and that he simply reverted to snake form on losing control of whatever was producing his fake human form.
That throwing away the wand is helpful was suggested by the previous incident with the dementors and Harry’s wand.
Actually, it’s possible that 1) he needed to throw the wand away to stop the cascade, but 2) became a snake to avoid any Dementor influence happening by way of the wand. He may also have felt that Bellatrix would be less likely to kill Voldemort’s favorite snake than some random human tool/servant of his.
Snakes are easier to carry, for example.
More energy efficient. Less hygiene requirements.
I don’t see this interpretation as plausible, too much implied drama for such an insignificant event in context (as more evidence, “last seconds tickling away” is a death metaphor). Dementors alerting Aurors about the escape is just the last nail in the coffin.
No, it’s the last seconds ticking away for a successful escape attempt- if Harry had put up his Patronus, there might have been time for Quirrell to recover, use a Memory Charm on the Auror, and abscond with BB without raising the alarm.
I now see that as more plausible than originally (having learned that my interpretation is not obvious to others), but remain uncertain and favoring the hypothesis of Quirrell having died. We’ll see what was actually intended.
...and if I replace my previous assumption that Quirrell collapsed as a direct result of Dementor influence that was opened by disappearance of Potter’s Patronus, with the much more plausible assumption that he collapsed because of magic incompatibility with Potter’s Patronus of the same nature as what killed him the first time, and only additionally suffered from Dementors, then it doesn’t follow that Dementors cause overwhelming harm, and so that prolonged exposure leads to death. This also explains throwing away the wand: make own magic weaker to reduce the effect of magical incompatibility.
Thus, now the hypothesis that Quirrell died seems less plausible than the alternative.
Really? I think it suggested that it was now too late for Dark Lord Harry to return to being Good Lad Harry without external intervention, a la kiss. He’s in too dark a place to think Happy Thoughts.
I read it as too late for Harry to save himself. And before that, Voldy was already gone, prior to Bahry’s reflexive stunner spell.
I didn’t realize it until you mentioned it.