Donated $10. If I start earning substantially more, I think I’d be willing to donate $100. As it stands, I don’t have that slack.
Algon
Karma: 2,177
Reminds me of “Self-Integrity and the Drowning Child” which talks about another kind of way that people in EA/rat communities are liable to hammer down parts of themselves.
RE: “something ChatGPT might right”, sorry for the error. I wrote the comment quickly, as otherwise I wouldn’t have written it at all.
Using ChatGPT to improve your writing is fine. I just want you to be aware that there’s an aversion to its style here.
Kennaway was quoting what I said, probably so he could make his reply more precise.
I didn’t down-vote your post, for what it’s worth.
There’s a LW norm, which seems to hold less force in recent years, for people to explain why they downvote something. I thought it would’ve been dispiriting to get negative feedback with no explanation, so I figured I’d explain in place of the people who downvoted you.
I don’t understand why businesses would be co-financing UBI instead of some government tax. Nor do I get why it would be desirable or even feasible, given the co-ordination issues.
If companies get to make UBI conditional on people learning certain things, then it’s not a UBI. Instead, it’s a peculiar sort of training program.
What does economic recovery have to do with UBI?
My guess as to why this got down-voted:
1) This reads like a manifesto, and not an argument. It reads like an aspirational poster, and not a plan. It feels like marketing, and not communication.
2) The style vaguely feels like something ChatGPT might right. Brightly polished, safe and stale.
3) This post doesn’t have any clear connection to making people less-wrong or reducing x-risks.3) wouldn’t have been much of an issue if not for 1 and 2. And 1 is an issue because, for the most part, LW has an aversion to “PR”. 2 is an issue because ChatGPT is now a thing so styles of writing which are like ChatGPT’s are viewed as likely to have been written by ChatGPT. This is an issue because texts written by ChatGPT often have little thought put into them, are unlikely to contain much that’s novel, and frequently have errors.
What kind of post could you have written which would have been better received? I’ll give some examples.
1) A concrete proposal for UBI that you thought was under-valued
2) An argument addressing some problems people have with UBI (e.g. who pays for all of it? After UBI is implemented and society reaches an equilibrium, won’t rents-seeking systems just suck up all the UBI money leaving people no better off than before?).
3) Or a post which was explicit about wanting to get people interested in UBI, and asked for feedback on potential draft messages.
In general, if you had informed people of something you genuinely believe, or told them about something you have tried and found useful, or asked sincere questions, then I think you’d have got a better reception.
That makes sense. If you had to re-do the whole process from scratch, what would you do differently this time?
Then I cold emailed supervisors for around two years until a research group at a university was willing to spare me some time to teach me about a field and have me help out.
Did you email supervisors in the areas you were publishing in? How often did you email them? Why’d it take so long for them to accept free high-skilled labour?
The track you’re on is pretty illegible to me. Not saying your assertion is true/false. But I am saying I don’t understand what you’re talking about, and don’t think you’ve provided much evidence to change my views. And I’m a bit confused as to the purpose of your post.
conditional on me being on the right track, any research that I tell basically anyone about will immediately be used to get ready to do the thing
Why? I don’t understand.
If I squint, I can see where they’re coming from. People often say that wars are foolish, and both sides would be better off if they didn’t fight. And this is standardly called “naive” by those engaging in realpolitik. Sadly, for any particular war, there’s a significant chance they’re right. Even aside from human stupidity, game theory is not so kind as to allow for peace unending. But the China-America AI race is not like that. The Chinese don’t want to race. They’ve shown no interest in being part of a race. It’s just American hawks on a loud, Quixotic quest masking the silence.
If I were to continue the story, it’d show Simplicio asking Galactico not to play Chicken and Galacitco replying “race? What race?”. Then Sophistico crashes into Galactico and Simplicio. Everyone dies, The End.
It’s a beautiful website. I’m sad to see you go. I’m excited to see you write more.
I think some international AI governance proposals have some sort of “kum ba yah, we’ll all just get along” flavor/tone to them, or some sort of “we should do this because it’s best for the world as a whole” vibe. This isn’t even Dem-coded so much as it is naive-coded, especially in DC circles.
This inspired me to write a silly dialogue.
Simplicio enters. An engine rumbles like the thunder of the gods, as Sophistico focuses on ensuring his MAGMA-O1 racecar will go as fast as possible.
Simplicio: “You shouldn’t play Chicken.”
Sophistico: “Why not?”
Simplicio: “Because you’re both worse off?”
Sophistico, chortling, pats Simplicio’s shoulder
Sophistico: “Oh dear, sweet, naive Simplicio! Don’t you know that no one cares about what’s ‘better for everyone?’ It’s every man out for himself! Really, if you were in charge, Simplicio, you’d be drowned like a bag of mewling kittens.”
Simplicio: “Are you serious? You’re really telling me that you’d prefer to play a game where you and Galactico hurtle towards each other on tonnes of iron, desperately hoping the other will turn first?”
Sophistico: “Oh Simplicio, don’t you understand? If it were up to me, I wouldn’t be playing this game. But if I back out or turn first, Galactico gets to call me a Chicken, and say his brain is much larger than mine. Think of the harm that would do to the United Sophist Association! ”
Simplicio: “Or you could die when you both ram your cars into each other! Think of the harm that would do to you! Think of how Galactico is in the same position as you! “
Sophistico shakes his head sadly.Sophistico: “Ah, I see! You must believe steering is a very hard problem. But don’t you understand that this is simply a matter of engineering? No matter how close Galactico and I get to the brink, we’ll have time to turn before we crash! Sure, there’s some minute danger that we might make a mistake in the razor-thin slice between utter safety and certain doom. But the probability of harm is small enough that it doesn’t change the calculus.”
Simplicio: “You’re not getting it. Your race against each other will shift the dynamics of when you’ll turn. Each moment in time, you’ll be incentivized to go just a little further until there’s few enough worlds that that razor-thin slice ain’t so thin any more. And your steering won’t save from that. It can’t. “
Sophistico: “What an argument! There’s no way our steering won’t be good enough. Look, I can turn away from Galactico’s car right now, can’t I? And I hardly think we’d push things till so late. We’d be able to turn in time. And moreover, we’ve never crashed before, so why should this time be any different?”
Simplico: “You’ve doubled the horsepower of your car and literally tied a rock to the pedal! You’re not going to be able to stop in time!”
Sophistico: “Well, of course I have to go faster than last time! USA must be first, you know?”
Simplicio: “OK, you know what? Fine. I’ll go talk to Galactico. I’m sure he’ll agree not to call you chicken.”
Sophistico: “That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard. Galactico’s ruthless and will do anything to beat me.”
Simplicio leaves as Acceleratio arrives with a barrel of jetfuel for the scramjet engine he hooked up to Simplicio’s O-1.
community norms which require basically everyone to be familiar with statistics and economics
I disagree. At best, community norms require everyone to in principle be able to follow along with some statistical/economic argument.
That is a better fit with my experience of LW discussions. And I am not, in fact, familiar with statistics or economics to the extent I am with e.g. classical mechanics or pre-DL machine learning. (This is funny for many reasons, especially because statistical mechanics is one of my favourite subjects in physics.) But it remains the case that what I know of economics could fill perhaps a single chapter in a textbook. I could do somewhat better with statistics, but asking me to calculate ANOVA scores or check if a test in a paper is appropriate for the theories at hand is a fool’s errand.
it may be net-harmful to create a social environment where people believe their “good intentions” will be met with intense suspicion.
The picture I get of Chinese culture from their fiction makes me think China is kinda like this. A recurrent trope was “If you do some good deeds, like offering free medicine to the poor, and don’t do a perfect job, like treating everyone who says they can’t afford medicine, then everyone will castigate you for only wanting to seem good. So don’t do good.” Another recurrent trope was “it’s dumb, even wrong, to be a hero/you should be a villain.” (One annoying variant is “kindness to your enemies is cruelty to your allies”, which is used to justify pointless cruelty.) I always assumed this was a cultural anti-body formed in response to communists doing terrible things in the name of the common good.
I agree it’s hard to accurately measure. All the more important to figure out some way to test if it’s working though. And there’s some reasons to think it won’t. Deliberate practice works when your practice is as close to real world situations as possible. The workshop mostly covered simple, constrained, clear feedback events. It isn’t obvious to me that planning problems in Baba is You are like useful planning problems IRL. So how do you know there’s transfer learning?
Some data I’d find convincing that Raemon is teaching you things which generalize. If the tools you learnt made you unstuck on some existing big problems you have, which you’ve been stuck on for a while.
How do you know this is actually useful? Or is it too early to tell yet?
Inventing blue LEDs was a substantial technical accomplishment, had a huge impact on society, was experimentally verified and can reasonably be called work in solid state physics.
Thanks! I read the paper and used it as material for a draft article on evidence for NAH. But I haven’t seen this video before.
AISafety.info: What is the “natural abstractions hypothesis”?
I think it’s unclear what it corresponds to. I agree the concept is quite low-level. It doesn’t seem obvious to me how to build up high-level concepts from “low-frequency” building blocks and judge if the result is low-frequency or not. That’s one reason I’m not super-persuaded by Nora Belrose’ argument that deception if high-frequency, as the argument seems too vague. However, it’s not like anyone else is doing much better at the moment e.g. the claims that utility maximization has “low description length” are about as hand-wavy to me.
Hello! How long have you been lurking, and what made you stop?