80% of US residents communicate at Level 1 80% of the time. “Please pass the potatoes,” “where are the lightbulbs,” “that will be $13.97,” etc. have no higher meaning, and make up the vast majority of mouth noises/text strings communicated between people.
The question of levels is limited to the 20% not related to immediate “molecules-impinging-on-my-body” things.
I guess I’m still confused about the basics of simulacrum levels, because I’m not sure what level those sentences are on. e.g., “Please pass the potatoes” is intended to have the consequence of causing someone to pass the potatoes, rather than attempting to accurately describe the world, which (I think) matches how people have been describing level 2. But also it seems concrete and grounded, rather than involving a distortion of reality. So maybe it is level 1? Or not in the hierarchy at all?
Interesting question. An experiment off top of head.
Level 1: “Please pass the potatoes” because you want potatoes.
Level 2: “Please pass the potatoes” because I want you to think you make good potatoes.
Level 3: “Please pass the potatoes” because I want to fit in with the potato-eating group.
Level 4: “Please pass the potatoes” because I can see there are no potatoes and this will lower the status of the people who didn’t make enough potatoes or raise the status of those whose potatoes are in high demand, or cause a fight over who ate too many, or whatever.
Yeah, I don’t really know where imperative statements fall. They seem more like level 3 if I imagine a soldier telling some people to stand down, but in simple things like “please pass the potatoes” there is also a substantial component of just saying “I would like to have the potatoes”, which is just a really straightforward level 1 statement, and indeed in some polite cultures the second one might completely replace the first, showing that they are kind of equivalent.
There’s definitely truth in that, but I think it’s below 80 on both counts, at least in 2020. Going about one’s business even in an ordinary way requires an understanding of a lot of higher meanings. Very little directly corresponds to reality.
I think it is correct that “please pass the potatoes” is Stage 1, but it’s not the best example for describing what this article is talking about. It’s more about the hearer than the speaker, in some ways, and what broader context they bring to a straightforward statement.
I think the idea is more like that at level 2, the child no longer passes the potatoes just because it’s the moral and practical thing to do, but sees it as an imposition and wants to know why he has to. The parent may be using the phrase exactly the same, but has failed to teach the child to appreciate his wider social obligations and what needs to be done to keep the community going. At level 3, the child thinks “better do what mom says and pass the potatoes or get yelled at/grounded,” but again sees it as a hassle rather than healthy interaction. This is because whenever she asks why, she gets told “because I said so.” Even though the reason her mom would ask is common sense, if you’re used to getting that answer, you often stop observing your own surroundings and think of things in a self-absorbed rather than common sense manner. At level 4, you may to get a point where a child casually passes a platter with one potato left, not thinking to get more or warn they are gone, because they don’t get that the request implies you want to eat the potatoes, not just possess a plate with scraps. Or they might get embarrassed by not knowing what to do and asked to be excused.
The “Please” doesn’t actually belong. I was importing the definition “I would be somewhat happier if …” into that word, but the cultural overtones cannot be escaped, and that puts the sentence anywhere on the Level Scale
Upon reflection, I see that any request necessarily has overtones at all levels, due to the possibility of alternative phrasings. (Please X; X; Hey you, X; X, or else; ^&*^% X &*^%%)
80% of US residents communicate at Level 1 80% of the time. “Please pass the potatoes,” “where are the lightbulbs,” “that will be $13.97,” etc. have no higher meaning, and make up the vast majority of mouth noises/text strings communicated between people. The question of levels is limited to the 20% not related to immediate “molecules-impinging-on-my-body” things.
I guess I’m still confused about the basics of simulacrum levels, because I’m not sure what level those sentences are on. e.g., “Please pass the potatoes” is intended to have the consequence of causing someone to pass the potatoes, rather than attempting to accurately describe the world, which (I think) matches how people have been describing level 2. But also it seems concrete and grounded, rather than involving a distortion of reality. So maybe it is level 1? Or not in the hierarchy at all?
Interesting question. An experiment off top of head.
Level 1: “Please pass the potatoes” because you want potatoes.
Level 2: “Please pass the potatoes” because I want you to think you make good potatoes.
Level 3: “Please pass the potatoes” because I want to fit in with the potato-eating group.
Level 4: “Please pass the potatoes” because I can see there are no potatoes and this will lower the status of the people who didn’t make enough potatoes or raise the status of those whose potatoes are in high demand, or cause a fight over who ate too many, or whatever.
Yeah, I don’t really know where imperative statements fall. They seem more like level 3 if I imagine a soldier telling some people to stand down, but in simple things like “please pass the potatoes” there is also a substantial component of just saying “I would like to have the potatoes”, which is just a really straightforward level 1 statement, and indeed in some polite cultures the second one might completely replace the first, showing that they are kind of equivalent.
There’s definitely truth in that, but I think it’s below 80 on both counts, at least in 2020. Going about one’s business even in an ordinary way requires an understanding of a lot of higher meanings. Very little directly corresponds to reality.
I think it is correct that “please pass the potatoes” is Stage 1, but it’s not the best example for describing what this article is talking about. It’s more about the hearer than the speaker, in some ways, and what broader context they bring to a straightforward statement.
I think the idea is more like that at level 2, the child no longer passes the potatoes just because it’s the moral and practical thing to do, but sees it as an imposition and wants to know why he has to. The parent may be using the phrase exactly the same, but has failed to teach the child to appreciate his wider social obligations and what needs to be done to keep the community going. At level 3, the child thinks “better do what mom says and pass the potatoes or get yelled at/grounded,” but again sees it as a hassle rather than healthy interaction. This is because whenever she asks why, she gets told “because I said so.” Even though the reason her mom would ask is common sense, if you’re used to getting that answer, you often stop observing your own surroundings and think of things in a self-absorbed rather than common sense manner. At level 4, you may to get a point where a child casually passes a platter with one potato left, not thinking to get more or warn they are gone, because they don’t get that the request implies you want to eat the potatoes, not just possess a plate with scraps. Or they might get embarrassed by not knowing what to do and asked to be excused.
The “Please” doesn’t actually belong. I was importing the definition “I would be somewhat happier if …” into that word, but the cultural overtones cannot be escaped, and that puts the sentence anywhere on the Level Scale
Upon reflection, I see that any request necessarily has overtones at all levels, due to the possibility of alternative phrasings. (Please X; X; Hey you, X; X, or else; ^&*^% X &*^%%)