Having just started following these threads, I’ve decided to reread the entire fic from the beginning. I’m only in chapter two, but has anyone considered why Harry has a 26 hour sleep cycle? This always seemed like a bad excuse to get Harry a time turner to me, and when I was reading it the first two (I think?) times, I excused it as bad writing. Now I’m thinking it may be deliberate, and my model of EY was wrong. Perhaps Horcrux!Harry has control (strongly put) over Harry for two hours every day, and this is the rise of his odd sleep cycle.
Perhaps Horcrux!Harry has control (strongly put) over Harry for two hours every day, and this is the rise of his odd sleep cycle.
So you’re thinking a Fightclub sort of control? I don’t think that works: we have no unexplained gaps and things happening of themselves, or characters whom Harry could be hallucinating (Quirrel doesn’t work). And the problem goes away with the Time turner, which a Horcrux!Harry wouldn’t. As well, existing Horcrux!Harry moments seem evenly spaced out through the day (like in the latest plot arc, which was noon-1ish, IIRC).
No, no, “The first rule of the Bayesian Conspiracy is that you talk about the Bayesian Conspiracy just as much as a typical member of the general population does.”
Never seen Fightclub, so hard to evaluate. But I meant more “influence”. Whenever the story says Harry’s “blood goes cold” I would evaluate that as control.
It probably shouldn’t be everything you wanted to know about him.
This is what EY thought of his own history in 2000. He was only 21, at the cusp of adulthood.
Now EY has a better understanding of present EY, of EY in 2000, and of his own history throughout. And he’s still probably wrong about things about himself that are obvious to others and go unmentioned anyway, like almost everyone.
You could reasonably want to know less than everything, you could reasonable want to know all the things on that page, but you are probably not serving your own interests well if the things on that page are all you seek to know.
Yeah, I wasn’t being literal. What I meant was that I really enjoy reading a personal narrated biography of someone that I really admire. Usually you can’t get that until they’re super famous or dead.
It’s a real disorder If that’s what concerns you. But if you’re asking “why use that excuse to exclude Harry from public school and give him a time-turner at Hogwarts? Is there a logical progression that definitively gives Harry a reason to have such a disorder?” I had never considered that.
One or two chapter discussions or so back, someone spoke to Eliezer in person and got super secret spoilery information about the diary, which they posted under ROT13. The first part is that the diary wasn’t meant to be anything special. Second part is gung orpnhfr bs nyy gur ernqre fcrphyngvba urf qrpvqrq gung ng fbzr cbvag uneel jvyy tb onpx gb vg naq qvfpbire fbzr eryngviryl zvabe ohg urycshy cvrpr bs vasbezngvba nobhg jnaqyrff zntvp
I admit I’m kind of surprised. You thought you could have Quirrell give Harry a spelled-indestructible diary for no apparent reason and that wouldn’t be a red herring?
As I’ve said recently I think Eliezer severely overestimates the readiness of people to let go of perceived patterns.
The indestructible diary was meant by Eliezer to be a red herring for the duration of a couple paragraphs, until the readers were told it was the diary of Roger Bacon, not Tom Riddle. At which point, I suppose readers were supposed to smile at themselves for being deceived.
But of course readers just pattern-matched “indestructible diary” to “super-significant plot-point and Horcrux” and wouldn’t let go.
Similar to this is Quirrel’s mannerisms at the very start of his first class, meant to get you to think he’ll be the typical Quirrel before he bursts into a confident diatribe, but people have speculated on that one, too.
As for myself, I quite liked the inclusion of Roger Bacon’s diary as part of the background. Though it did lead me to expect a bit more information on ‘leakage’ between the magical and mundane worlds.
For the record, it never occurred to me it could be Riddle’s diary, and yet I assumed it was a horcrux because it was indestructible. I was probably pattern-matching with the Pioneer probe, which Quirrelmort also said he had spelled to be indestructible and this was, indeed, a Clue that it was a horcrux.
Also, in canon, a horcrux can possess you if you become emotionally attached to it. The diary seemed calculated to become a prized possession of Harry’s, and that when Harry learned Latin he could well be in for a nasty shock...
Perhaps I should have updated when it was never mentioned again. Hmm.
The indestructible diary was meant by Eliezer to be a red herring for the duration of a couple paragraphs, until the readers were told it was the diary of Roger Bacon, not Tom Riddle.
Even that’s strange though. I didn’t seriously entertain the thought that it was Tom Riddle’s diary or a horcrux. And then it being Roger Bacon’s attempts to apply science to magic was super-awesome—it was sort of a Chekhov’s Gun and I kept expecting Harry to gain some sort of insight or initial boost or secret knowledge from reading it.
I was thinking the same thing. The things he thinks should be obvious by now (such as the quirrel/voldemort connection) ought to be made explicit in an appropriate point-of-view so we can puzzle over the things that he wants the reader to be puzzling over.
I knew it was a real disorder, but the probability of having it is so low as to bother me—why does he need a disorder and why locate that disorder in all of diseasespace? And if it’s based on EY, I don’t believe he has that disorder, unless I’ve missed something.
It’s also the sort of disorder that people are told to suck up and deal with if they get it in real life. I mean, I’m sure there are some people who get lucky, but a lot of others get misdiagnosed as being bad sleepers who just stay up late. There is, IIRC, no cure other than rearranging your life. Harry’s parents get marked as understanding and caring (and affluent). And the magic world gets to show off it’s 0th world status.
Although I agree that it sounds mostly like a contrivance to get him a time-turner. They do have sleep spells afterall.
Having just started following these threads, I’ve decided to reread the entire fic from the beginning. I’m only in chapter two, but has anyone considered why Harry has a 26 hour sleep cycle? This always seemed like a bad excuse to get Harry a time turner to me, and when I was reading it the first two (I think?) times, I excused it as bad writing. Now I’m thinking it may be deliberate, and my model of EY was wrong. Perhaps Horcrux!Harry has control (strongly put) over Harry for two hours every day, and this is the rise of his odd sleep cycle.
So you’re thinking a Fightclub sort of control? I don’t think that works: we have no unexplained gaps and things happening of themselves, or characters whom Harry could be hallucinating (Quirrel doesn’t work). And the problem goes away with the Time turner, which a Horcrux!Harry wouldn’t. As well, existing Horcrux!Harry moments seem evenly spaced out through the day (like in the latest plot arc, which was noon-1ish, IIRC).
“The first rule of the Bayesian Conspiracy is that you don’t talk about the Bayesian Conspiracy. To laypeople, I mean.”
“The nth rule of the Bayesian Conspiracy may be deduced from the (n-1)th rule.”
No, no, “The first rule of the Bayesian Conspiracy is that you talk about the Bayesian Conspiracy just as much as a typical member of the general population does.”
“The Bayesian Conspiracy was just the beginning, now it’s moved out of the classroom—it’s called Chaos Army.”
Never seen Fightclub, so hard to evaluate. But I meant more “influence”. Whenever the story says Harry’s “blood goes cold” I would evaluate that as control.
I’m roughly 50⁄50 on whether there’s some deeper meaning behind it, or if it’s just a piece of rather bad/inelegant writing...
I think HP is partially based on EY. For example, EY once bit a teacher. Also he stopped attending school for different reasons.
That is really interesting. But I can’t help but feel like I’m violating his privacy when I read that:
In light of that, it’s difficult for me to feel OK reading it on WayBack Machine...
I’m sure Eliezer knows that old stuff of his is on archive.org. If he wanted to, he could have it removed.
Indeed, information security is a process, not a status.
Duplicating the page, maybe, but he absolutely can’t forbid quoting it or linking to it; those actions’d fall under fair use in most cases.
(That is, if you care about copyright law at all.)
I was going to forward you the link I had to that page somewhere in the wild, but looks like my bookmark is to the wayback machine as well. Whoops...
This is everything I’ve wanted to know about Eliezer.
It probably shouldn’t be everything you wanted to know about him.
This is what EY thought of his own history in 2000. He was only 21, at the cusp of adulthood.
Now EY has a better understanding of present EY, of EY in 2000, and of his own history throughout. And he’s still probably wrong about things about himself that are obvious to others and go unmentioned anyway, like almost everyone.
You could reasonably want to know less than everything, you could reasonable want to know all the things on that page, but you are probably not serving your own interests well if the things on that page are all you seek to know.
Yeah, I wasn’t being literal. What I meant was that I really enjoy reading a personal narrated biography of someone that I really admire. Usually you can’t get that until they’re super famous or dead.
It’s a real disorder If that’s what concerns you. But if you’re asking “why use that excuse to exclude Harry from public school and give him a time-turner at Hogwarts? Is there a logical progression that definitively gives Harry a reason to have such a disorder?” I had never considered that.
Thanks, I didn’t realize that was a real thing.
Harry’s sleep schedule wasn’t on the red herring list. Further investigation warranted.
But equally not everything that happens is intended to have further meaning, eg. the Bacon diary was just intended as a character piece
How do you know this?
One or two chapter discussions or so back, someone spoke to Eliezer in person and got super secret spoilery information about the diary, which they posted under ROT13. The first part is that the diary wasn’t meant to be anything special. Second part is gung orpnhfr bs nyy gur ernqre fcrphyngvba urf qrpvqrq gung ng fbzr cbvag uneel jvyy tb onpx gb vg naq qvfpbire fbzr eryngviryl zvabe ohg urycshy cvrpr bs vasbezngvba nobhg jnaqyrff zntvp
That would’ve taken too much time, actually, I’ve got new plans now. But by reader demand, it will reappear.
I admit I’m kind of surprised. You thought you could have Quirrell give Harry a spelled-indestructible diary for no apparent reason and that wouldn’t be a red herring?
As I’ve said recently I think Eliezer severely overestimates the readiness of people to let go of perceived patterns.
The indestructible diary was meant by Eliezer to be a red herring for the duration of a couple paragraphs, until the readers were told it was the diary of Roger Bacon, not Tom Riddle. At which point, I suppose readers were supposed to smile at themselves for being deceived.
But of course readers just pattern-matched “indestructible diary” to “super-significant plot-point and Horcrux” and wouldn’t let go.
Similar to this is Quirrel’s mannerisms at the very start of his first class, meant to get you to think he’ll be the typical Quirrel before he bursts into a confident diatribe, but people have speculated on that one, too.
As for myself, I quite liked the inclusion of Roger Bacon’s diary as part of the background. Though it did lead me to expect a bit more information on ‘leakage’ between the magical and mundane worlds.
For the record, it never occurred to me it could be Riddle’s diary, and yet I assumed it was a horcrux because it was indestructible. I was probably pattern-matching with the Pioneer probe, which Quirrelmort also said he had spelled to be indestructible and this was, indeed, a Clue that it was a horcrux.
Also, in canon, a horcrux can possess you if you become emotionally attached to it. The diary seemed calculated to become a prized possession of Harry’s, and that when Harry learned Latin he could well be in for a nasty shock...
Perhaps I should have updated when it was never mentioned again. Hmm.
Even that’s strange though. I didn’t seriously entertain the thought that it was Tom Riddle’s diary or a horcrux. And then it being Roger Bacon’s attempts to apply science to magic was super-awesome—it was sort of a Chekhov’s Gun and I kept expecting Harry to gain some sort of insight or initial boost or secret knowledge from reading it.
That’s probably a fair analysis.
I was thinking the same thing. The things he thinks should be obvious by now (such as the quirrel/voldemort connection) ought to be made explicit in an appropriate point-of-view so we can puzzle over the things that he wants the reader to be puzzling over.
EY said so in a post. He said he didn’t think anything of it and didn’t mean to go back to it, but the readers wouldn’t stop asking about it.
I guess that means Erratio should have ciphered?
I knew it was a real disorder, but the probability of having it is so low as to bother me—why does he need a disorder and why locate that disorder in all of diseasespace? And if it’s based on EY, I don’t believe he has that disorder, unless I’ve missed something.
It’s also the sort of disorder that people are told to suck up and deal with if they get it in real life. I mean, I’m sure there are some people who get lucky, but a lot of others get misdiagnosed as being bad sleepers who just stay up late. There is, IIRC, no cure other than rearranging your life. Harry’s parents get marked as understanding and caring (and affluent). And the magic world gets to show off it’s 0th world status.
Although I agree that it sounds mostly like a contrivance to get him a time-turner. They do have sleep spells afterall.
Upvoted for calling out privilege.