As far as I can tell, a great deal of “philosophy” (basically the intellectuals’ wastebasket taxon) consists of wordplay, apologetics, or outright nonsense. Consequently, for any given philosophical work, my prior strongly favors not reading it because the expected benefit won’t outweigh the cost. It takes a great deal of evidence to tip the balance.
For example: I’ve heard vague rumors that GWF Hegel concludes that the Prussian State (under which, coincidentally, he lived) was the best form of human existence. I’ve also heard that Descartes “proves” that God exists. Now, whether or not Hegel or Descartes may have had any valid insights, this is enough to tell me that it’s not worth my time to go looking for them.
However, at the same time I’m concerned that this leads me to read things that only reinforce the beliefs I already have. And there’s little point in seeking information if it doesn’t change your beliefs.
It’s a complicated question what purpose philosophy serves, but I wouldn’t be posting here if I thought it served none. So my question is: What philosophical works and authors have you found especially valuable, for whatever reason? Perhaps the recommendations of such esteemed individuals as yourselves will carry enough evidentiary weight that I’ll actually read the darned things.
So my question is: What philosophical works and authors have you found especially valuable, for whatever reason?
You might find it more helpful to come at the matter from a topic-centric direction, instead of an author-centric direction. Are there topics that interest you, but which seem to be discussed mostly by philosophers? If so, which community of philosophers looks like it is exploring (or has explored) the most productive avenues for understanding that topic?
Remember that philosophers, like everyone else, lived before the idea of motivated cognition was fully developed; it was commonplace to have theories of epistemology which didn’t lead you to be suspicious enough of your own conclusions. You may be holding them to too high a standard by pointing to some of their conclusions, when some of their intermediate ideas and methods are still of interest and value today.
However, you should be selective of who you read. Unless you’re an academic philosopher, for instance, reading a modern synopsis of Kantian thought is vastly preferable to trying to read Kant yourself. For similar reasons, I’ve steered clear of Hegel’s original texts.
Unfortunately for the present purpose, I myself went the long way (I went to a college with a strong Great Books core in several subjects), so I don’t have a good digest to recommend. Anyone else have one?
For example: I’ve heard vague rumors that GWF Hegel concludes that the Prussian State (under which, coincidentally, he lived) was the best form of human existence. I’ve also heard that Descartes “proves” that God exists. Now, whether or not Hegel or Descartes may have had any valid insights, this is enough to tell me that it’s not worth my time to go looking for them.
That’s an extremely bad way to draw conclusions. If you were living 300 years ago, you could have similarly heard that some English dude named Isaac Newton is spending enormous amounts of time scribbling obsessive speculations about Biblical apocalypse and other occult subjects—and concluded that even if he had some valid insights about physics, it wouldn’t be worth your time to go looking for them.
The value of Newton’s theories themselves can quite easily be checked, independently of the quality of his epistemology.
For a philosopher like Hegel, it’s much harder to dissociate the different bits of what he wrote, and if one part looks rotten, there’s no obvious place to cut.
(What’s more, Newton’s obsession with alchemy would discourage me from reading whatever Newton had to say about science in general)
That’s a very vague statement, however. How exactly should one identify those expressions of stupid opinions that are relevant enough to imply that the rest of the author’s work is not worth one’s time?
In the context of LessWrong it should be considered trivial to the point of outright patronising if not explicitly prompted. Bayesian inference is quite possibly the core premise of the community.
How exactly should one identify those expressions of stupid opinions that are relevant enough to imply that the rest of the author’s work is not worth one’s time?
In the process of redacting my reply I coined the term “Freudian Double-Entendre”. Given my love of irony I hope the reader appreciates my restraint! <-- Example of a very vague statement. In fact if anyone correctly follows that I expect I would thoroughly enjoy reading their other comments.
It’s a complicated question what purpose philosophy serves, but I wouldn’t be posting here if I thought it served none. So my question is: What philosophical works and authors have you found especially valuable, for whatever reason? Perhaps the recommendations of such esteemed individuals as yourselves will carry enough evidentiary weight that I’ll actually read the darned things.
Laktatos, Quine and Kuhn are all worth reading. Recommended works from each follows:
Lakatos: ” Proofs and Refutations”
Quine: “Two Dogmas of Empiricism”
Kuhn: “The Copernican Revolution” and “The Structure of Scientific Revolution”
All of these have things which are wrong but they make arguments that need to be grappled with and understood (Copernican Revolution is more of a history book than a philosophy book but it helps present a case of Kuhn’s approach to the history and philosophy of science in great detail). Kuhn is a particularly interesting case- I think that his general thesis about how science operates and what science is is wrong, but he makes a strong enough case such that I find weaker versions of his claims to be highly plausible. Kuhn also is just an excellent writer full of interesting factual tidbits.
’ve also heard that Descartes “proves” that God exists. Now, whether or not Hegel or Descartes may have had any valid insights, this is enough to tell me that it’s not worth my time to go looking for them.
This seems like in general not a great attitude. The Descartes case is especially relevant in that Descartes did a lot of stuff not just philosophy. And some of his philosophy is worth understanding simply due to the fact that later authors react to him and discuss things in his context. And although he’s often wrong, he’s often wrong in a very precise fashion. His dualism is much more well-defined than people before him. Hegel however is a complete muddle. I’d label a lot of Hegel as not even wrong. ETA: And if I’m going to be bashing Hegel a bit, what kind of arrogant individual does it take to write a book entitled “The Encyclopedia of the Philosophical Sciences” that is just one’s magnum opus about one’s own philosophical views and doesn’t discuss any others?
Yes. I agree with your criticisms—“philosophy” in academia seems to be essentially professional arguing, but there are plenty of well-reasoned and useful ideas that come of it, too. There is a lot of non-rational work out there (i.e. lots of valid arguments based on irrational premises) but since you’re asking the question in this forum I am assuming you’re looking for something of use/interest to a rationalist.
So my question is: What philosophical works and authors have you found especially valuable, for whatever reason?
I’ve developed quite a respect for Hilary Putnam and have read many of his books. Much of his work covers philosophy of the mind with a strong eye towards computational theories of the mind. Beyond just his insights, my respect also stems from his intellectual honesty. In the Introduction to “Representation and Reality” he takes a moment to note, “I am, thus, as I have done on more than one occasion, criticizing a view I myself earlier advanced.” In short, as a rationalist I find reading his work very worthwhile.
I also liked “Objectivity: The Obligations of Impersonal Reason” by Nicholas Rescher quite a lot, but that’s probably partly colored by having already come to similar conclusions going in.
PS—There was this thread over at Hacker News that just came up yesterday if you’re looking to cast a wider net.
I’ve always been told that Hegel basically affixed the section about Prussia due to political pressures, and that modern philosophers totally ignore it. Having said that, I wouldn’t read Hegel.
I recommend avoiding reading original texts, and instead reading modern commentaries and compilations. ‘Contemporary Readings in Epistemology’ was the favoured first-year text at Oxford. Bertrand Russell’s “History of Western Philosophy” is quite a good read too.
For example: I’ve heard vague rumors that GWF Hegel concludes that the Prussian State (under which, coincidentally, he lived) was the best form of human existence. I’ve also heard that Descartes “proves” that God exists. Now, whether or not Hegel or Descartes may have had any valid insights, this is enough to tell me that it’s not worth my time to go looking for them.
This is an understandable sentiment, but it’s pretty harsh. Everybody makes mistakes—there is no such thing as a perfect scholar, or perfect author. And I think that when Descartes is studied, there is usually a good deal of critique and rejection of his ideas. But there’s still a lot of good stuff there, in the end.
What philosophical works and authors have you found especially valuable, for whatever reason?
I have found Foucault to be a very interesting modern philosopher/historian. His book, I believe entitled “Madness and civilization”, (translated from French), strikes me as a highly impressive analysis on many different levels. His writing style is striking, and his concentration on motivation and purpose goes very, very deep.
Maybe LW should have resident intellectual historians who read philosophy. They could distill any actual insights from dubious, old or badly written philosophy, and tell if a work is worthy reading for rationalists.
Is there any philosophy worth reading?
As far as I can tell, a great deal of “philosophy” (basically the intellectuals’ wastebasket taxon) consists of wordplay, apologetics, or outright nonsense. Consequently, for any given philosophical work, my prior strongly favors not reading it because the expected benefit won’t outweigh the cost. It takes a great deal of evidence to tip the balance.
For example: I’ve heard vague rumors that GWF Hegel concludes that the Prussian State (under which, coincidentally, he lived) was the best form of human existence. I’ve also heard that Descartes “proves” that God exists. Now, whether or not Hegel or Descartes may have had any valid insights, this is enough to tell me that it’s not worth my time to go looking for them.
However, at the same time I’m concerned that this leads me to read things that only reinforce the beliefs I already have. And there’s little point in seeking information if it doesn’t change your beliefs.
It’s a complicated question what purpose philosophy serves, but I wouldn’t be posting here if I thought it served none. So my question is: What philosophical works and authors have you found especially valuable, for whatever reason? Perhaps the recommendations of such esteemed individuals as yourselves will carry enough evidentiary weight that I’ll actually read the darned things.
You might find it more helpful to come at the matter from a topic-centric direction, instead of an author-centric direction. Are there topics that interest you, but which seem to be discussed mostly by philosophers? If so, which community of philosophers looks like it is exploring (or has explored) the most productive avenues for understanding that topic?
Remember that philosophers, like everyone else, lived before the idea of motivated cognition was fully developed; it was commonplace to have theories of epistemology which didn’t lead you to be suspicious enough of your own conclusions. You may be holding them to too high a standard by pointing to some of their conclusions, when some of their intermediate ideas and methods are still of interest and value today.
However, you should be selective of who you read. Unless you’re an academic philosopher, for instance, reading a modern synopsis of Kantian thought is vastly preferable to trying to read Kant yourself. For similar reasons, I’ve steered clear of Hegel’s original texts.
Unfortunately for the present purpose, I myself went the long way (I went to a college with a strong Great Books core in several subjects), so I don’t have a good digest to recommend. Anyone else have one?
Yoreth:
That’s an extremely bad way to draw conclusions. If you were living 300 years ago, you could have similarly heard that some English dude named Isaac Newton is spending enormous amounts of time scribbling obsessive speculations about Biblical apocalypse and other occult subjects—and concluded that even if he had some valid insights about physics, it wouldn’t be worth your time to go looking for them.
The value of Newton’s theories themselves can quite easily be checked, independently of the quality of his epistemology.
For a philosopher like Hegel, it’s much harder to dissociate the different bits of what he wrote, and if one part looks rotten, there’s no obvious place to cut.
(What’s more, Newton’s obsession with alchemy would discourage me from reading whatever Newton had to say about science in general)
A bad way to draw conclusions. A good way to make significant updates based on inference.
Would you be so kind as to spell out the exact sort of “update based on inference” that applies here?
???
“People who say stupid things are, all else being equal, more likely to say other stupid things in related areas”.
That’s a very vague statement, however. How exactly should one identify those expressions of stupid opinions that are relevant enough to imply that the rest of the author’s work is not worth one’s time?
Nobody knows (obviously), but you can try to train your intuition to do that well. You’d expect this correlation to be there.
In the context of LessWrong it should be considered trivial to the point of outright patronising if not explicitly prompted. Bayesian inference is quite possibly the core premise of the community.
In the process of redacting my reply I coined the term “Freudian Double-Entendre”. Given my love of irony I hope the reader appreciates my restraint! <-- Example of a very vague statement. In fact if anyone correctly follows that I expect I would thoroughly enjoy reading their other comments.
Yep, and note that Hegel’s philosophy is related to states more than Newton’s physics is related to the occult.
Laktatos, Quine and Kuhn are all worth reading. Recommended works from each follows:
Lakatos: ” Proofs and Refutations” Quine: “Two Dogmas of Empiricism” Kuhn: “The Copernican Revolution” and “The Structure of Scientific Revolution”
All of these have things which are wrong but they make arguments that need to be grappled with and understood (Copernican Revolution is more of a history book than a philosophy book but it helps present a case of Kuhn’s approach to the history and philosophy of science in great detail). Kuhn is a particularly interesting case- I think that his general thesis about how science operates and what science is is wrong, but he makes a strong enough case such that I find weaker versions of his claims to be highly plausible. Kuhn also is just an excellent writer full of interesting factual tidbits.
This seems like in general not a great attitude. The Descartes case is especially relevant in that Descartes did a lot of stuff not just philosophy. And some of his philosophy is worth understanding simply due to the fact that later authors react to him and discuss things in his context. And although he’s often wrong, he’s often wrong in a very precise fashion. His dualism is much more well-defined than people before him. Hegel however is a complete muddle. I’d label a lot of Hegel as not even wrong. ETA: And if I’m going to be bashing Hegel a bit, what kind of arrogant individual does it take to write a book entitled “The Encyclopedia of the Philosophical Sciences” that is just one’s magnum opus about one’s own philosophical views and doesn’t discuss any others?
Yes. I agree with your criticisms—“philosophy” in academia seems to be essentially professional arguing, but there are plenty of well-reasoned and useful ideas that come of it, too. There is a lot of non-rational work out there (i.e. lots of valid arguments based on irrational premises) but since you’re asking the question in this forum I am assuming you’re looking for something of use/interest to a rationalist.
I’ve developed quite a respect for Hilary Putnam and have read many of his books. Much of his work covers philosophy of the mind with a strong eye towards computational theories of the mind. Beyond just his insights, my respect also stems from his intellectual honesty. In the Introduction to “Representation and Reality” he takes a moment to note, “I am, thus, as I have done on more than one occasion, criticizing a view I myself earlier advanced.” In short, as a rationalist I find reading his work very worthwhile.
I also liked “Objectivity: The Obligations of Impersonal Reason” by Nicholas Rescher quite a lot, but that’s probably partly colored by having already come to similar conclusions going in.
PS—There was this thread over at Hacker News that just came up yesterday if you’re looking to cast a wider net.
I’ve always been told that Hegel basically affixed the section about Prussia due to political pressures, and that modern philosophers totally ignore it. Having said that, I wouldn’t read Hegel.
I recommend avoiding reading original texts, and instead reading modern commentaries and compilations. ‘Contemporary Readings in Epistemology’ was the favoured first-year text at Oxford. Bertrand Russell’s “History of Western Philosophy” is quite a good read too.
The Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy is also very good.
I’ve enjoyed Nietzsche, he’s an entertaining and thought-provoking writer. He offers some interesting perspectives on morality, history, etc.
None that actively affiliate themselves with the label ‘philosophy’.
This is an understandable sentiment, but it’s pretty harsh. Everybody makes mistakes—there is no such thing as a perfect scholar, or perfect author. And I think that when Descartes is studied, there is usually a good deal of critique and rejection of his ideas. But there’s still a lot of good stuff there, in the end.
I have found Foucault to be a very interesting modern philosopher/historian. His book, I believe entitled “Madness and civilization”, (translated from French), strikes me as a highly impressive analysis on many different levels. His writing style is striking, and his concentration on motivation and purpose goes very, very deep.
Maybe LW should have resident intellectual historians who read philosophy. They could distill any actual insights from dubious, old or badly written philosophy, and tell if a work is worthy reading for rationalists.