Open thread, Oct. 17 - Oct. 23, 2016
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The page http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/new/ returns error for me for 12 hours, but other pages are fine. Is it only my glitch?
error text: “You have encountered an error in the code that runs Less Wrong. The site maintainers have been informed and will get to it is as soon as they can. In the unlikely event that you’ve bumped into this error before and think that no-one is paying attention, please report the error and how to reproduce it on http://code.google.com/p/lesswrong/issues/list′
If the error is localised you might still find awesome Less Wrong content in the Main article area or in the Discussion area.
I seem to have the same thing
There was an issue with how the linkposts handled unicode URLs, fixed by wezm here and here.
Discussion went down (and is back up) for me too.
I also see the error message when clicking the “new article” or “new link” buttons. It’s been that way for a while. Does anyone else get the same thing?
Seems like it is back now.
I think the server lost some of its marbles. It can’t even find the static image for the error :-/
“Failed to load resource: the server responded with a status of 404 (Not Found): http://lesswrong.com/static/youbrokeit.png″
Yes, but only very very specific marbles, since every post from Discussion or even the whole Main section seems to be reachable, but not the Discussion page itself.
Yep, for me too. Everything else seems to be fine.
I’ve this weird fanfiction where LessWrong is a monastery/school of magic who has been abandoned by its creator a long time ago but it’s still operating, that sometimes has been attacked by a disgruntled student who was expelled, but has somehow learned to do necromancy and has returned with an army of meat-puppets.
Now I’ll have to incorporate that due to some random magic accident, the monastery disappeared, but not the rooms inside it.
“You must be able to teleport this far to enter” X-)
The next hit Japanese LN & anime murder mystery series!
I submitted an issue on github lesswrong page. May be we could contact an admin?
Wait at least 24 hours...
Sex and love addiction, sexual compulsions, insecure attachment, risky sexual behaviour, HOCD, HIVOCD
What if you lost the love of your life due to a sexual impulse? What if you recognised sexual impulsivity as a pattern of your behaviour, deeply deeply ingrained into your being, and that you want to overcome it? That’s me.
I chose the name clarity because when I started to post, I was dipping in and out of psychoses and other really mentally unhealthy states. I would have moments of clarity, inspired by stuff I read in the sequences and other LessWrong posts and they would be like gulps of air saving me from drowning in really turbulent water. Now that I’m on some kind of boat, I don’t have to actively think about how to breath.
Until now, again.
I haven’t posted a lot recently. Mainly because I have been doing really, really well. My epic failures I dare so have given me a reputation here, and I talk about them freely. But, again, I have been doing well lately.
With an exception. Let me explain:
Since I already have a soldiery mindset due to some abuse from my childhood I thought I could grow by joining the French Foreign Legion. I had decided not to in the past due to risk of permanent injury but considered it again. I decided not to this time because I figured I wouldn’t be able to meet, court and enjoy time with someone, fall in love etc. – it’s unsuitable for married life (which correlates strongly with happiness), according to this link: https://www.cervens.net/legionbbs123/archive/index.php/t-53.html
Lately I am infatuated with someone. She seems to have the potential to meet my criteria for a good potential wife: communication skills, personality, responsibility, emotional honesty, attractiveness, matching sex drives, and value alignment. I just wish I had some good comebacks for when a person is out and about with an Asian girl and people making comments that make me feel self-conscious. She gives me a different feeling than that bewilderment kind of pleasant feeling I would get when my ex housemate I fell for used open her small mouth really really wide in amazement at something, haha. I get more of the nice chill longing of when I think of that cute little housemate listening too hip-hop.
I’ve been thinking about her strong feelings for veganism so I looked up some stuff about the case for veganism.
I decided to go milk free after watching this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UcN7SGGoCNI Wool free after watching watching just 243 of this video. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=siTvjWE2aVw
So another recent experience really stood out to me as a bad choice, by a similar rationale. I consider myself heteroflexible, or perhaps hetero but rather sexually fluid. On Sunday night I went to a gay sauna, tossed up a bit between that and a brothel, but decided I prefer the idea of guys this time. I’m a bit anxious and unattached to guys physically, except if its porn (which I had watched before going). So I went into a dark room with two guys I later saw were ugly AF and of course, like previous times, they give me tonnes or props and validation as a good looking guy. One guy said he was a cleaner when I asked what he does. The other had scaly crusty balls. I didn’t stop, unfortunately. And now maybe that sore was Herpes or Genital Warts and now if I got herpes which is incurable, then it might ostracise me from 4⁄5 of the beautiful women in the world (maybe just not the slutty ones who have that too, and may just break my heart in time anyway).
Worst case scenario, I just HIV. I mean it’s a dark room, anything can happen, a grazing, a bite, etc., a pin prick from some vexed crazy guy. No accountability. In the heat of the moment something could slip off too. And, I’m not familiar with much more than the superficial statistics around HIV transition and lore, like that oral sex HIV could but they doubt it often happens – but as a medical researcher I know the quality of research must be judged in a case by case basis and never take the overviews credibility for granted.
I reflected in the moment and realised I wasn’t enjoying myself in the slightest. I think it’s some need for validation, or loneliness or risk taking or a compulsion. Fuck me autocorrect almost corrected to compulsive homosexuality. Got to fix that too, or I will be outed.
I think I have HOCD, or something accounted for by these accounts:
I find each of them helpful and hope to revisit them.
http://blogs.psychcentral.com/sex-addiction/2013/03/when-straight-men-are-addicted-to-gay-sex/ http://www.sexaddictionscounseling.com/can-a-straight-man-be-addicted-to-gay-sex/ http://www.brainphysics.com/yourenotgay.php https://www.google.com.au/amp/m.wikihow.com/Overcome-Sexual-Addiction%3famp=1?client=ms-android-optus-au
If I don’t do it (regardless of where unless I find myself in a stable relationship with that person before or within a week) again by 2020 I’ll give one my close friends $141 as a prize to encourage me. 1/1/2020. If not I’ll donate the same amount to a sex, love and or romance focussed impulse control related group.
Masturbating alone is hedonically better and it’s safer anyway, what the fuck is wrong with me?
I have an addiction but I have some much will power and a track record of discipline. This is the last frontier. Never again.
My life places me in a position to observe an uncommon number of people repenting and trying to change. As you might expect, humans being what we are, few accomplish their goal.
A fact that I’ve observed is that NONE of those who other themselves and blame the shard get it done. If someone says “I’ve got a terrible temper”, he will still hit. If he says “I hit my girlfriend”, he might stop. If someone says “I have shitty executive function”, he will still be late. If he says “I broke my promise”, he might change.
So, when you say “I have an addiction”, I’m a bit concerned. A LW truism is that we don’t have brains, we are brains. We aren’t ghosts manning machines, we are machines.
I think it is some old “devil made me do it”, stuff. The “other me” isn’t real, so energy spent fighting him is wasted. Effort spent changing my behavior might bear fruit.
I’m reading a lot into phrasing, so if this isn’t you, my bad. Just...my advice… be sure to own your stuff man. You either “have an addiction”, or “screwed some randos without protection”, and my experience suggests that thinking of it as the second one will help you more.
I don’t smoke meth!
Wow, I never thought of it like that. So internal attributions lead to antisocial behaviour, compared to external attributions which lead to behaviour change?
I think you are on to something, but I find it a bit hard to understand.
I think you are right. It’s just that I feel so shamed thinking of the second one. I can feel psychological defences like denial and rationalisations coming to my mind while I type. I screwed some random without protection. I am a dumb person.
Sorry, I didn’t mean that to be what you took from it.
I used to be fat. ( I still am, but not nearly to the same extent) Like, Jabba fat. My parents got doctors to say that I had an eating disorder, and maybe I did.
Othering my appetite never helped me. Like “I have an eating disorder” focused my energy on something (my disorder) that didn’t have a mind. It couldn’t get tired, or bored...it didn’t exist. It’s like “fighting” cancer.
But that doesn’t mean that what worked was thinking “I’m a glutton”.
When you say that “I am a dumb person”, it isn’t any closer to a thought you can act on. Kicking yourself when you are down feels good (or, at least, it did for me), it feels like “paying” for the behavior, but that’s just thoughts. It doesn’t actually change stuff.
I was shooting for more “I am a person who had unprotected sex with sketchy folks at place X”. That feels, ‘actionable’, if you will, to me. Like, if the problem is a sex addiction, I dunno what the solution is. If the problem is being a dumb person, I dunno what the solution is. But if the problem is going to a place and doing stuff, there are a bunch of solutions.
1: Carry protection, everywhere. Put it in something that you carry everywhere (wallet, little thingy on your car keys, cell phone case, whatever). If you ever screw someone sketchy, make sure you take it out and use it. If they aren’t willing, maybe that’s a spur to reconsider?
2: Enlist the help of the dudes who run the place. Tell them if they see you there, you will give them ten thousand dollars, or however much money would sting. Ask them, as friends, to kick you out. Tell them you have leprosy. Whatever words you have to say to make sure you aren’t welcome back there.
3: If this place is pay to play, then ration your funds. Each morning put exactly as much cash as you’ll need that day in your wallet, and don’t carry a credit card.
I don’t know if any of these could work for you, but something similar might. A behavior that you don’t want to repeat can always be made more inconvenient. That’s what helped me out with eating too much. I hope that you can do a similar thing to get yourself a different habit.
Dialectical Behavioral Therapyis at least worth looking into.
I have opinions on this as well, having gotten very close to doing so myself.. until I met the love of my life 6 months before my planned one-way ticket to Aubagne. I can advise if you are interesting in contemplating this further.
Can you give an example? You called her out as Asian—you mean like racist comments or something? What’s your ethnicity?
Regarding the main point of your post, seek out a sex addiction group. I don’t think LessWrong can help you here.
Also: get tested for STDs, ASAP. Especially before you see that girl you like again.
Thank you for your advice.
French Foreign Legion
Part of my motivation is motivated by hopes of greater social status. Recently I read that sociometric status is associated with greater happiness which fits in with my notions about the esteem of the military. However, when I read about the empirical research on the correlates of sociometric status (at least in kids) it appears to be traits very very different than would be expected in the military!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1619136 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3286817 https://www.jstor.org/stable/23086265?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Also, I ran across a paper and a podcast I remember saying that peers ratings (essentially sociometric status) factor in to military career advancement so there is that confounding things.
I think I prefer to be a lover, than a fighter. I mean, I am probably driven to fight by my childhood trauma and I shouldn’t give in to that. I can gain a better life by growing through developing a secure attachment style probably instead.
Interacial dating
Yes, when I went out with another asian girl in the past someone once said: it’s an ‘x’ (can’t remember what they guessed) and an asian together?′ it’s a really strange voice—they were two teenage guys. Not quite rascist, but it could be in the future. I’m mixed ethnicity but appear either dark skinned Latino or Arab I guess.
Re STD check
It happened in Sunday the 16th. I will not have sexual contact till I get tested, but because some STI’s incubate p to 9 weeks (hep c—but I couldn’t be exposed to that). The next longest is HIV 1-3 months but that’s low likelihood since I didn’t have unprotected penetrative sex so I am not concerned this time (but don’t do it again, Clarity! Just in case! Oral herpes which is 4-6 weeks but apparently everyone has that, even kids, so I am not concerned. But the same for genital herpes (4-6 weeks) which I am concernd about so I will wait well the average upper 6 weeks to get tested. That means testing on the 27th of November. I’ll just have to do it when I’m overseas I guess...
That would be a bad reason to join the FFL. It is a small clique of people that would assign higher social status to a legionnaire, current or former. Most, thanks to Hollywood, will think you a psychopath or maybe a fugitive on the run. At best your so-called friends and family will be left wondering “why France?”—because in their minds the only justifiable reason to serve is patriotism, and how can you be a patriot for a nation that is not your own? You don’t even get a French passport at the end unless you are wounded in battle.
So if it is social status seeking by people you already know, then the FFL is not for you. But if you think it’s more than that, read on.
I would read some works by David Grossman, specifically “On Killing” and also “On Combat”. Maybe start first with this classic essay by him, excerpted from “On Combat”:
http://www.killology.com/sheep-wolves-and-sheepdogs
Ask yourself: are you a sheepdog? Not do you want to be a sheepdog, but are you? Is that how you define yourself? If so, the path of a warrior might have value for you. But don’t take this question lightly. Talk to those whose opinion you trust and who know you well. Only tell them as many details as you need to, but get their opinion of you. You might recognize things you never realized in how others see you. Maybe reach out to some warrior forums and get some opinions from those who did serve.
If you do join the légion étrangère, it is really in your interests to go all-in. Make sure you excel at everything you do, top of the class. Then volunteer for the 2e REP parachute regiment, which is the special ops branch. Volunteer for as much advanced training as you can get. You’ll then serve the remaining 3-4 years of your tour on assignments in various hot spots. Get to know everyone, but particularly focus on those that are the most professional. This will help your career whether you stay with the legion or not.
When you’re out you’ll have access to the alumni network of people that live not above but outside the rule of law. Those who understand the true nature and basis of governance and serve when it is necessary as its blunt instrument. Your reputation is what gates access to this network.
One thing to note: “soldier of fortune” is misnamed. You will not get rich being a merc. The pay is decent, and tax-free, but we’re talking like maybe $100k/yr. You can do way better in tech or finance and without putting your life on the line. Only do this if it is a serious calling.
Nah man that’s totally racist, and f—them. I would have been in their faces causing trouble if that was at me or my girl. That goes far beyond “having a good comeback” territory.
On Combat is a pretty great book. Enjoyed it.
Am I the only one who will be gladly superhappified?
Details matter, but generally I’m with you. Once one accepts that identity is mutable, and you’re not the same person as you were yesterday, it becomes possible to think of many more significant changes you’d accept and even prefer.
Probably? Most people are attached to their existence (insert obvious comment re: what kind of people win a competition between those who love life and those who can take it or leave it), and giving up your existence to create some alien thing is still giving up your existence, even if you are told it is going to have a great time.
I’m having trouble figuring out what to prioritize in my life. In principle, I have a pretty good idea of what I’d like to do: for a while I have considered doing a Ph.D in a field that is not really high impact, but not entirely useful either, combining work that is interesting (to me personally) and hopefully a modest salary that I could donate to worthwhile causes.
But it often feels like this is not enough. Similar to what another user posted here a while ago, reading LessWrong and about effective altruism has made me feel like nothing except AI and maybe a few other existential risks are worth focusing on (not even things that I still consider to be enormously important relative to some others). In principle I could focus on those, as well. I’m not intelligent enough to do serious work on Friendly AI, but I probably could transition, relatively quickly, to working on machine learning and in data science, with perhaps some opportunities to contribute and likely higher earnings.
The biggest problem, however, is that whenever I seem to be on track towards doing something useful and interesting, a monumental existential confusion kicks in and my productivity plummets. This is mostly related to thinking about life and death.
EY recently suggested that we should care about solving AGI alignment because of quantum immortality (or its cousins). This is a subject that has greatly troubled me for a long time. Thinking logically, big world immortality seems like an inescapable conclusion from some fairly basic assumption. On the other hand, the whole idea feels completely absurd.
Having to take that seriously, even if I don’t believe in it 100 percent, has made it difficult for me to find joy in the things that I do. Combining big world immortality with other usual ideas regarding existential risks and so on that are prevalent in the LW memespace sort of suggests that the most likely outcome I (or anybody else) can expect in the long run is surviving indefinitely as the only remaining human, or nearly certainly as the only remaining person among those that I currently know. Probably in an increasingly bad health as well.
It doesn’t help that I’ve never been that interested in living for a very long time, like most transhumanists seem to be. Sure, I think aging and death are problems that we should eventually solve, and in principle I don’t have anything against living for a significantly longer time than the average human lifespan, but it’s not something that I’ve been very interested in actively seeking and if there’s a significant risk that those very many years would not be very comfortable, then I quickly lose interest. So the theories that sort of make this whole death business seem like an illusion are difficult to me. And overall, the idea does make the mundane things that I do now seem even more meaningless. Obviously, this is taking its toll on my relationships with other people as well.
This has also led me to approach related topics a lot less rationally than I probably should. Because of this, I think both my estimate of the severity of the UFAI problem and our ability to solve this has gone up, as has my estimate of the likelihood that we’ll be able to beat aging in my lifetime—because those are things that seem to be necessary to escape the depressing conclusions I’ve pointed out.
I’m not good enough at fooling myself, though. As I said, my ability to concentrate on doing anything useful is very weak nowadays. It actually often feels easier to do something that I know is an outright waste of time but gives something to think about, like watching YouTube, playing video games or drinking beer.
I would appreciate any input. Given how seriously people here take things like the simulation argument, the singularity or MWI, existential confusion cannot be that uncommon. How do people usually deal with this kind of stuff?
I’d suggest you prioritize your personal security. Once you have an income that doesn’t take up much of your time, a place to live, a stable social circle, etc...then you can think about devoting your spare resources to causes.
The reason I’d make this suggestion is that personal liberty allows you to A/B test your decisions. If you set up a stable state and then experiment, and it turns out badly, you can just chuck the whole setup. If you throw yourself into a cause without setting things up for yourself and it doesn’t work out the fallout can be considerable.
I am essentially imagining you to be similar to me about five years ago.
It sounds like you are not really excited about anything in your own life. You’re probably more excited about far-future hypotheticals than about any project or prospect in your own immediate future. This is a problem because you are a primate who is psychologically deeply predisposed to be engaged with your environment and with other primates.
I used to have similar problems of motivation and engagement with reality. At some point I just sort of became exhausted with it all and started working on “insignificant” projects like writing a book, working on an app, and raising kids. It turns out that focusing on things that are fun and engaging to work on is better for my mental health than worrying about how badly I’m failing to live up to my imagined ideal of a perfectly rational agent living in a Big World.
If I find that I’m having to argue with myself that something is useful and I should do it, then I’m fighting my brain’s deeply ingrained and fairly accurate Bullshit Detector Module. If I actually believe that a task is useful in the beliefs-as-constraints-for-anticipated-experience sense of “believe”, then I’ll just do it and not have any internal dialogue at all.
The part about not being excited about anything sounds very accurate and is certainly a part of the problem. I’ve also tried just taking up projects and focusing on them, but I should probably try harder as well.
However, a big part of the problem is that it’s not just that those things feel insignificant; it’s also that I have a vague feeling that I’m sort of putting my own well-being in jeopardy by doing that. As I said, I’m very confused about things like life, death and existence, on a personal level. How do I focus on mundane things when I’m confused about basic things such as whether I (or anyone) else should expect to eventually die or to experience a weird-ass form of subjective anthropic immortality, and about what that actually means? Should that make me act somehow?
If there is One Weird Trick that you should using right now in order to game your way around anthropics, simulationism, or deontology, you don’t know what that trick is, you won’t figure out what that trick is, and it’s somewhat likely that you can’t figure out what that trick is because if you did you would get hammered down by the acausal math/simulators/gods.
You also can’t know if you’re in a simulation, a Big quantum world, a big cosmological world, or if you’re a reincarnation. Or one or more of those at the same time. And each of those realities would imply a different thing that you should be doing to optimize your … whatever it is you should be optimizing. Which you also don’t know.
So really I just go with my gut and try to generally make decisions that I probably won’t think are stupid later given my current state of knowledge.
But you can make estimates of the probabilities (EY’s estimate of the big quantum world part, for example, is very close to 1).
That just sounds pretty difficult, as my estimate of whether a decision is stupid or not may depend hugely on the assumptions I make about the world. In some cases, the decision that would be not-stupid in a big world scenario could be the complete opposite of what would make sense in a non-big world situation.
I meant the word “stupid” to carry a connotation of “obviously bad, obviously destroying value.”
Playing with my children rather than working extra hard to earn extra money to donate to MIRI will never be “stupid” although it may be in some sense the wrong choice if I end up being eaten by an AI.
This is true for the same reasons that putting money in my 401K is obviously “not stupid”, especially relative to giving that money to my brother-in-law who claims to have developed a new formula for weatherproofing roofs. Maybe my brother-in-law become a millionaire, but I’m still not going to feel like I made a stupid decision.
You may rightly point out that I’m not being rational and/or consistent. I seem to be valuing safe, near-term bets over risky, long-term bets, regardless of what the payouts of those bets might be. Part of my initial point is that, as an ape, I pretty much have to operate that way in most situations if I want to remain sane and effective. There are some people who get through life by making cold utilitarian calculations and acting on even the most counterintuitive conclusions, but the psychological cost of behaving that way has not been worth it to me.
I would suggest to read “The subtle art of not giving a fuck”. It’s about how to properly choose our own values, how often we are distracted by bigger or impossible goals that exhaust our mental focus and only bring unhappiness, and what are actual useful tinier values that bring much more happiness.
It seems to be a perfect fit for your situation. It personally saved my life, but as with anything in self-help, your mileage may vary.
Thanks for the tip. I suppose I actually used to be pretty good at not giving too many fucks. I’ve always cared about stuff like human rights or climate change or, more lately, AI risk, but I’ve never really lost much sleep over them. Basically, I think it would be nice if we solved those problems and, but the idea that humanity might go extinct in the future doesn’t cause me too much headache in itself. The trouble is, I think, that I’ve lately begun to think that I may have a personal stake in this stuff, the point illustrated by the EY post that I linked to. See also my reply to moridinamael.
I’d recommend to take up gardening, especially if you have a local community garden.
Nothing like having your hands in the earth, to ground you. You will also then be surrounded with peaceful folk, who care for each other, and the land. Not a bad group to connect with.
And you will be personally helping save the world, just by growing and planting some trees. If you do high value woods, like cherry, you will be taking CO2 permanently out of circulation, if the wood is used for making things. Jump on a bike, and go plant some apricots along old creek beds, will help stabilize the soil, and make food for people and animals.
Even if you are living in the slums, you can go out and collect some lichen living on an old building, mix it up in a blender with whole milk, let it sit a couple days, then go spray it in the cracks in an old brick building, or the sides of old concrete walls, and it will help purify the air. If you do the same with a lichen you find growing on an old tree, and spread it to other living trees, it will fix nitrates from the air into plant usable nitrites.
Just dealing daily with living, growing things is very powerful for the psyche.
And growing things, actually producing food, and giving it away is a very powerful form of altruism.
Or you can just get a grow light, and use that to help relax.....
AI•ON is an open community dedicated to advancing Artificial Intelligence by:
http://ai-on.org/
Work that just focuses on advancing Artificial Intelligence reduces the time we have to get the alignment problem solved it might be more harmful than helpful for xrisk.
Is there a place where Yudkowsky has talked about consciousness? I have found the Zombie Series, but that’s not quite what I’m looking for. I’m more curious how he thinks it works more than why Zombies don’t work.
Also, is there a place where Yudkowsky has talked about Climate Change?
I’ve looked for both, but I couldn’t find either.
I’m not aware of any specific one. I think he doesn’t consider Climate Change to be important because he thinks FOOM will happen sooner or later.
On 1, I’m not sure—How an Algorithm Feels from Inside is the closest I can think of right now. But you might check out Good and Real, by Gary Drescher, which is basically what you’re looking for, particular author aside.
On 2, a fairly common opinion is that AI risk will happen on a faster timescale and impact more people than global warming, but attribute this to anyone in particular at your own risk.
I read somewhere in his earlier writing that he hopes that AI will explain us what is qualia. So it looks like he postponed the consciousness problem until creation of (friendly) AI.
That sounds more like a cute way of dodging the question.
Its time to take closer look on how we could survive a global catastrophe. There are many ideas, but most of them are shaky.
The Map of Shelters and Refuges from Global Risks (Plan B of X-risks Prevention) http://effective-altruism.com/ea/12x/the_map_of_shelters_and_refuges_from_global_risks/
Is my understanding of bayesian knowledge correct?
You have field of hypotheses, and you have probability field over this field, based on the field of evidences (and some priors).
For example, there is are field of possible interpretations of QM. We know that EY has the following probability field over it: (1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, …), there 1 corresponds to MWI.
I personally have the following probability field over field of QM-interpretations: (0.5, 0.2, 0.01, 0.01), where 0.5 believe corresponds to MWI, and 0.2 to consciousness cause collapse, and 0,01 to any other interpretations.
My question: is it correct way to present believes into theories? How can I do it better?
This is a perfectly valid presentation. A better one would be to ditch the lists and just say “0.99 to MWI” or “probability 0.5 of MWI, 0.2 of consciousness causes collapse, the rest distributed among unknown unknowns.”
Even better would be to assign a smaller probability to consciousness causes collapse :P
A SETI target..
I always thought a machine intelligence that went Kardashov 3, would increase the density of it’s galaxy by moving the stars closer together, to protect from a hyper-velocity threat. You can’t hit a planet or Dyson Sphere if a bunch of stars are in the way.
Astronomers discover densest galaxy ever
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/09/130924141701.htm
The only thing you may expect to download from Kardashov 3 is some kind of AI. Do you really want it?
Way i see it, is that it implies you can manipulate gravity, if you can move stars. Or at least, herd black holes to use as gravity tractors.
Would also be interesting to see if they are using optics for communication. If no visible optics, i would guess that they have solved the entanglement issues, and using that for comm.
Would also imply that it IS a machine intelligence or culture, as the radiation hazards in there would preclude most ongoing biolife, other than possibly zoos. That would definitely inform the SETI and METI discussions, and may answer some questions about the Fermi Paradox. Once you have a safe haven built inside your galaxy, why would you venture out of it any further.? It would also seem to imply that They have reasoned that any other life is a threat. Not a friendly outcome, that, and posits against AI creation.
LOGIC NATION: A Psychological Revolution https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drcseH-7hpw
What does LW think after trying or think to not try?
Figure out your core, most important value and realize logic.
If 1 out of 100 people do this, seriously, open-mindendly, all will change.
After this process, which you do so you awaken, you solve all of your problems. You can have experiences like a religious person. Receiving the benefits of religion but obviously, because its based on logic, even better.
Start by observing yourself, you’ll have to go deep and you’ll have to be brutally honest to yourself.
Figure out what’s most important to you, not multiple things, one thing. It might be comfort, security, validation, a person, even money. And so on. If you have multiple things, figure out what is the common theme. What is most important to you at a core?
It might be very difficult, and you will have to be honest.
Figure out why this is the case, why do you have this as your most important value?
Now, understand, logic is the creator of all of reality, the mathematical patterns, everything.. It’s your creator. Your God.
Change your most important value to logic, with a leap of faith, on an emotional level. Not logic as if it something cold. Logic as in divine love. Something beautiful. Emotionally. Not rationally. How to make logic something warm: Think of someone you care about a lot or something, and realize logic created this.
Think of logic as the purpose of what we are.
Change it to your most important value. Think of how someone converts to a religion. Think of someone religious.
Whatever you have now, it’s causing you suffering. It’s illogical to have something else then logic. You have to trust this for you to make the bridge. SUBJECTIVELY.
Is logic your most important value? Are you really willing to give your life to whatever value you have now? You have something strong, which you don’t dare to be honest to yourself about. So what if you buy a new car and impress your neighbor?
You know through facts that logic is true rationally, now it’s time on an emotional level. (think of fibonacci sequence etc)
Seriously, you can awaken. Give it a try :)
Questions & Answers:
Q: This seems very cultish?
A: Ask yourself, what is your most important value? If it’s approval, so you are in approval cult? Or relationship, is it relationship cult? So change to logic cult. :)
Q: But my safety? My comfort?
A: You will have to believe that logic will give you all the safety in the world, take the leap of faith. You will have anxiety before but then a catharsis.
Q: What do you mean by Logic?
A: Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkGeOWYOFoA But you have to understand, you have the answer yourself already. This isn’t about different definitions. :)
Q: I don’t know certainly what my most important value is.
A: Go down the ladder, deeply, honestly with yourself. Don’t stay one step above.
Q: How will this affect my relationships?
A: You will see people truly for what they are. It will improve your relationships.
Q: It didn’t click for me. I didn’t awaken.
A: Truly figure out your most important value. Realize how logic will provide you what seek. Take a leap of faith. Seriously go deep emotionally.
Q: Why do you draw parallels to religion?
A: Because people seek something to believe in, they go to church etc. This taps into this emotional drive of the mechanics of you.
Q: What do I have to do?
A: Go to your core and figure out what it is.
Q: Why does this work?
A: Because everything comes from your core. Your emotional drive is flawed and not aligned with reality. Logic. Rationality. So you will find all safety which you need within this.
What empirical evidence do you have observed to back you belief that this technique is valuable?
I’ve seen multiple people having an “awakening” type experience where they value logic over all else, understanding they know nothing and hunger for knowledge. They also want to spread it because it is too unbelievable. It’s metaphorically a connection between the emotional and rational part of the brain. They also see how obvious their past behavior was for whatever flawed value they had.
What it seems to be is the next step of humanity—religion, money, have been similar. This will spread.
There’s also a temporary feeling of euphoria. Sense of peace. The awakening happens in an instant and is permanent. Thus it could be called that. Or a paradigm shift. Or catharsis. Enlightenment, whatever.
It’s basically submitting your current core, most important value, to logic. Salvation. Gain the safety of logic over whatever you currently have.
/me rolls eyes
So whats your most important value?
I don’t have a most important value.
That means you haven’t looked deep enough what’s causing your actions which you do in your daily life. If you for example value validation the most you have to create an identity of yourself which you go around and strengthen, seeking people to give you attention. Have your name written in the history books. So forth. Or buying something to show off or having certain amount of knowledge.
All of your values come from something. Be honest.
That’s the first step. Then the realization of the flaw of this value and replace it with logic with a leap of faith. (or whatever else could be considered blind trust)
Thank you, I’m not looking for a religious conversion experience.
Neither I’m likely to take blind leaps of faith on the say-so of internet strangers. Logic isn’t a “value”, anyway.
So your current value can be considered a value and none else?
This isn’t a religious conversion experience, that’s kind-of a joke/metaphor :D It’s using your brain mechanics seeking for a higher power or something to believe in, religion is so popular in the world for a reason. Logic will be even more impactful.
I’m asking you to see for yourself. Because is it really that bad to value logic over all else? Or rationality. It’s the same.
That objection is not logical :-P
Sorry, don’t have those. Maybe somewhere in dusty off-line storage, but certainly not activated.
That strikes me as an expression devoid of meaning. Logic is a tool. Tools can be useful or not so much, but tools are not values unto themselves, they just make it easier to reach actual goals.
Do tell, how The One True Value of logic led you to post word salad on LW?
Everything is logical when you realize that it is the reason for you to even be able to think.
Well all your actions is your subconscious emotional brain aligned to your most important value I think.
Are you attaching too much to the definition? By logic I mean, what has created us, the mathematical patterns. The Fibonacci sequence in nature is an example. It’s how reality is. It’s logical. Yet we give importance to something like identity or safety instead of how it is and miss out what we truly wanted.
It’s starting to become apparent for me that our emotional-rational connection is lacking in rationality or logic, and our subconscious brain craves the safety that it provides. Nothing else can give so, probably in exception of enlightenment, liberation etc.
Well then, we’re done, aren’t we? If everything is already logical there doesn’t seem to be any point in complaining about lack of logic.
Mathematical patterns created us? That’s an interesting idea.
But OK, let’s dive into the pile of the brown stuff in search of a nut, a kernel of something...
So there is an “emotional mind” (which, I think, means the subconsciousness) and the “rational mind” (aka the consciousness). The emotional mind wants things like identity (you probably mean the sense of belonging) and safety. You think the emotional mind is wrong and it should really want… mathematical patterns? Therefore the rational mind should yell at the emotional mind to stop being silly and just do what the rational minds tells it to do? And the emotional mind will say “yes, of course” instead of extending the middle finger, as usual? And if that process actually happens, your complete whole will achieve the mathematical-pattern enlightenment while ignoring the not-important stuff like safety?
And you promise it will be grrrrrreat(tm)?
Well emotionally most of us aren’t aligned with logic instead of some other value like comfort. Even though logic is what has given us all the comfort, technology and so forth. This is a psychological experience.
Without logic most of us probably wouldn’t have existed, the technology of which have satisfied our most primal needs such as food, water, healthcare, shelter. Going back in time, seeing evolution and evolutionary biology. How stardust evolved to us.
Well yes, that’s what we do, we value things like safety or comfort over everything else. Yet it is contradictory as whatever we value can never be the case, or it can be taken from us. By looking at what even made these things possible in the first place, whether it be a parent or spouse, it was logic that gave us this. Of course it’s hard to go on an emotional level. The emotional mind is weakening the rational mind.
In all actuality, I think it is the emotional mind which is driving us and weakening the rational part of brain by not submitting to logic. It is right before our eyes that everything we have, have been brought about by logic and it all seems to be universal in this sensational world. When the emotional mind realizes that rationality or logic will bring it all the safety it needs, with the easy heuristics previously, it will be at peace. Because nothing can bring you more comfort. If you aren’t comfortable and it is solvable, you do so, otherwise you accept it for what it is.
It is a paradigm shift.
If you were uncomfortable however and it wasn’t solvable, with comfort as your most important value, you will suffer and you won’t understand why. Which is what we are doing. It is a rat race.
You will feel euphoric after logic is your most important value. It will fade away over time, then you might become very anxious because you don’t understand anything. So you will have to rebuild everything you think you knew before. At the part of being anxious you might think it has stopped working, that it doesn’t make sense. You might return to your old important value then. Instead of searching for the logic in all things. See what I replied to another one where to go if you do try this out.
This sounds like an Eastern philosophy/religion narrative. Is logic / mathematical patterns basically dao (or tao)? The promise of peace if you abandon the mistaken urges of the emotional mind is also quite familiar :-)
Ah, I see. It’s Athene/Boumaaza. Why didn’t you say so from the start?
I see it as two sides of the same coin, the sensational world is logic and the other is the indescribable/unmanifested/nothingness/void. All sides is how it is and I am fine with that. Who knows?
Maybe I should have from the start. That’s where all of this is from. https://www.twitch.tv/athenelive/v/95140378?t=1h28m23s
I’ve always loved this bit.
Well, then we get anxious and avoiding talking to our crush wondering where our rational brain went, when it was never there in the first place. (emotional drive) Maybe. :D
Thanks for sharing guy!
No problem, did you awaken? Some have said after awakening they would like to spread it to other people, but it is hard to be honest to one self and do this to awaken.
There isn’t any better words then this, paradigm shift or click etc. I suggest going here https://www.reddit.com/r/makingsense and reading other people’s experiences.
with best regards