Ugh… I get that you wanted to take it upon yourself to name the person, but you could’ve written this a bit more sensitively. My guess is that the mother will feel pretty awful reading your comment, and also be uber-defensive.
Edit: The comments replying to me seem correct, and I think it’s probably more important to positively reinforce you actually stating this.
Complaining about people who cause problems is an undersupplied public service in our community. I appreciate Elo’s willingness to overcome the bystander effect. At the same time, gossiping about people on the internet should only be done with great care.
My understanding is, in the relationship between Katie and Andromeda, Andromeda wears the pants. And letting Andromeda wear the pants sucks up time and energy. Using rich person parenting styles has costs if you’re poor.
I’m generally sympathetic to parents who complain about unsolicited childrearing advice. But lots of people in the community have been helping Katie with Andromeda. This is admirable, and I think if these people have a hand in supporting a child, they deserve a voice in how it is raised.
between Katie and Andromeda, Andromeda wears the pants.
I believe that Katie’s choices as to how to raise a human are her own. Right up until it starts influencing others.
Just like I would publicly berate people who won’t vaccinate their children, I would publicly name and shame someone for failing to take actions that are respectful of the other people at the event. (especially in times when it is within your control to do so)
Sure there are days when you still have to go to the DMV even though you have kids in tow and you have to somehow navigate public. Such is life. This is not one of those days. The solstice is an event that is optional in attendance. (even for the religiously inclined, other religious groups find ways to solve this problem)
unsolicited childrearing advice.
Absolutely. I won’t tell Katie how to raise I child, but I will clearly say, you have a responsibility to control your kid at times when they are causing trouble to others. How that is done is up to you.
If a kid is too young to understand (for example to be respectful of others) then you are to take actions that cause the correctly fair experience, as a burden on yourself to take action. for example, taking the kid into another room (as many have mentioned) so that the kid is no longer disrupting others.
My understanding is, in the relationship between Katie and Andromeda, Andromeda wears the pants.
I think “wears the pants” is a phrase that really needs to die. It embodies multiple different outdated, silly and/or potentially offensive assumptions.
OK. I thought you were Eugene because he’s been creating sockpuppets to post low effort SJ content and discredit SJ ever since downvoting was disabled. You know, mean girls feminism type stuff that treats ideas like clothes (“outdated”, “makes me laugh”, “someone somewhere might think it’s ugly”, etc.)
Oh yes, I understand how you got to that conclusion.
I think I have been the #1 target of Eugine’s mass-downvoting for some time, which is why I was amused. But of course I shouldn’t expect other people to be as aware as I am of what Eugine has been doing to me :-).
(If you look at pretty much any comment of mine made in, say, the 3 months before downvoting was disabled, you will see it sitting at −1. And then if you hover your mouse over the karma score you will often notice that it’s actually at +7-8 or +5-6 or +9-10 or something. That would be because, finding that downvoting everything I wrote once wasn’t enough, Eugine decided on a policy of using his sockpuppets to put everything I write below zero. Most of the upvotes on those comments are probably from people who saw them at −1 and thought “meh, this doesn’t deserve to be negative” … only to have their attempt at correction nulled out by Eugine’s socks.)
For context, calling her out specifically is extremely rare, people try to be very diplomatic, and there is definitely a major communcation failure Elo is trying to address.
I’m unsure about the overall rights and wrongs, but surely this is definitely incorrect: you could e.g. have said “I know whose child it was that was making the noise, and it was definitely not Alicorn’s”.
I think it’s a separate issue: in principle, you could have pretty much any norms about calling out other people’s bad behaviour along with pretty much any norms about how one person gets to find out what another wants. But I’d guess that willingness to make public objections like this correlates with Ask+Tell as opposed to Guess, and probably also with Tell as opposed to Ask.
At this point the motivation of “feeling awful” is being made to encourage her to improve her child-managing skills. She can be defensive about it, but no amount of defensiveness can apologise for her bad form which offended a great number of people (I have to wonder how many people have not posted on the thread, once voice of dissent is probably equal to at least 10 silent participants with the same opinion)
She can be defensive about it, but no amount of defensiveness can apologise for her bad form which offended a great number of people
FYI “defensiveness” is bad because she will not change her mind. I didn’t mean “she’ll be offended”. Katie not being defensive is positive for your goals.
Ugh… I get that you wanted to take it upon yourself to name the person, but you could’ve written this a bit more sensitively. My guess is that the mother will feel pretty awful reading your comment, and also be uber-defensive.
Edit: The comments replying to me seem correct, and I think it’s probably more important to positively reinforce you actually stating this.
Complaining about people who cause problems is an undersupplied public service in our community. I appreciate Elo’s willingness to overcome the bystander effect. At the same time, gossiping about people on the internet should only be done with great care.
My understanding is, in the relationship between Katie and Andromeda, Andromeda wears the pants. And letting Andromeda wear the pants sucks up time and energy. Using rich person parenting styles has costs if you’re poor.
I’m generally sympathetic to parents who complain about unsolicited childrearing advice. But lots of people in the community have been helping Katie with Andromeda. This is admirable, and I think if these people have a hand in supporting a child, they deserve a voice in how it is raised.
I believe that Katie’s choices as to how to raise a human are her own. Right up until it starts influencing others.
Just like I would publicly berate people who won’t vaccinate their children, I would publicly name and shame someone for failing to take actions that are respectful of the other people at the event. (especially in times when it is within your control to do so)
Sure there are days when you still have to go to the DMV even though you have kids in tow and you have to somehow navigate public. Such is life. This is not one of those days. The solstice is an event that is optional in attendance. (even for the religiously inclined, other religious groups find ways to solve this problem)
Absolutely. I won’t tell Katie how to raise I child, but I will clearly say, you have a responsibility to control your kid at times when they are causing trouble to others. How that is done is up to you.
If a kid is too young to understand (for example to be respectful of others) then you are to take actions that cause the correctly fair experience, as a burden on yourself to take action. for example, taking the kid into another room (as many have mentioned) so that the kid is no longer disrupting others.
I think “wears the pants” is a phrase that really needs to die. It embodies multiple different outdated, silly and/or potentially offensive assumptions.
Eugene?
Me? Someone hasn’t been paying attention.
No, I am not Eugine and the above was intended seriously.
OK. I thought you were Eugene because he’s been creating sockpuppets to post low effort SJ content and discredit SJ ever since downvoting was disabled. You know, mean girls feminism type stuff that treats ideas like clothes (“outdated”, “makes me laugh”, “someone somewhere might think it’s ugly”, etc.)
Oh yes, I understand how you got to that conclusion.
I think I have been the #1 target of Eugine’s mass-downvoting for some time, which is why I was amused. But of course I shouldn’t expect other people to be as aware as I am of what Eugine has been doing to me :-).
(If you look at pretty much any comment of mine made in, say, the 3 months before downvoting was disabled, you will see it sitting at −1. And then if you hover your mouse over the karma score you will often notice that it’s actually at +7-8 or +5-6 or +9-10 or something. That would be because, finding that downvoting everything I wrote once wasn’t enough, Eugine decided on a policy of using his sockpuppets to put everything I write below zero. Most of the upvotes on those comments are probably from people who saw them at −1 and thought “meh, this doesn’t deserve to be negative” … only to have their attempt at correction nulled out by Eugine’s socks.)
feel free to message me any suspicious activity.
For context, calling her out specifically is extremely rare, people try to be very diplomatic, and there is definitely a major communcation failure Elo is trying to address.
I could be more diplomatic. But I’d still have to name katie for the sake of sparing Alicorn the confusion about her own child-raising.
I’m unsure about the overall rights and wrongs, but surely this is definitely incorrect: you could e.g. have said “I know whose child it was that was making the noise, and it was definitely not Alicorn’s”.
I wonder where this form of communication lands in Ask, Tell, or Guess Culture?
I think it’s a separate issue: in principle, you could have pretty much any norms about calling out other people’s bad behaviour along with pretty much any norms about how one person gets to find out what another wants. But I’d guess that willingness to make public objections like this correlates with Ask+Tell as opposed to Guess, and probably also with Tell as opposed to Ask.
At this point the motivation of “feeling awful” is being made to encourage her to improve her child-managing skills. She can be defensive about it, but no amount of defensiveness can apologise for her bad form which offended a great number of people (I have to wonder how many people have not posted on the thread, once voice of dissent is probably equal to at least 10 silent participants with the same opinion)
FYI “defensiveness” is bad because she will not change her mind. I didn’t mean “she’ll be offended”. Katie not being defensive is positive for your goals.