So, are you surprised that it’s commonly offered advice on how to become one of the most productive and connected people in any work environment? Offer to help anyone on anything, do double duty on work, and be gracious of it?
Offering to help a coworker and offering to help a stranger from an internet forum are two radically different things. The former is something I do on a regular basis; I agree that it is produces good results.
Standards of politeness are incredibly sensitive to context, and from your first line in the parent I take it you agree. Why do you believe this standard of politeness is appropriate to the contexts of both work and a semi-anonymous internet forum?
Offering to help a coworker and offering to help a stranger from an internet forum are two radically different things. The former is something I do on a regular basis; I agree that it is produces good results.
Okay, cool. You might try offering after a decent exchange—if you look at my profile or “About Me” section on any place I hang out, or any site, I encourage people to look me up for a coffee, or if they have any questions, or I can help at all. Most people don’t take me up on it, but some do—I’ve helped people with their marketing, I’ve helped people get pay raises, improve their writing and creative output, I’ve recommended books and places to stay and go in various cities… and it’s been good. I’ve made friends and colleagues like that.
I learned this because I met one of my best friends this way. When he was a stranger, he emailed me a technical question, and I went over and above the call of duty and wrote him back a 5 page reply with specs and details. He then referred me to a job because I sounded like I knew what I was talking about and invited me to stay with him if I was ever in Los Angeles. I did, and he became one of my best friends. Later, he helped me close a $60,000 deal when I bought out half of a company. We’ve been skiing together in Japan and had lots of cool memories and insights. All because I helped a random stranger, and he was really cool about it afterwards.
It might seem different, but I think most people appreciate it. A fairly prolific photographer/technical blogger emailed me a while back, and after a short exchange, he asked if there’s anything he could help me with. I asked how he made a few of the pictures that were really beautiful? And he shared some software recommendations with me. We’re now friendly acquaintances, and we’ll probably go out for food together next time I’m in San Francisco.
Some people might take it poorly. But who cares? The upside of making a new friend or colleague because you’re always happy to help anyone is huge. Someone doesn’t like it? Well, what’s the downside? Who cares? Most people are grateful anyways, actually, but if a couple people don’t like it… so what? You offer to help someone and they take it the wrong way? Well, nothing significant lost on anyone’s end. The friends and colleagues you make, and the general good you do for the world more than compensates for the (very rare, if ever) negative reaction.
Standards of politeness are incredibly sensitive to context, and from your first line in the parent I take it you agree. Why do you believe this standard of politeness is appropriate to the contexts of both work and a semi-anonymous internet forum?
Good comment/question. I generally try to err on the side of being more polite and gracious unless there’s a reason not to, because I don’t see any real downside to it. You’re right—we’re all strangers on the net, so there’s no real repercussions if something goes over poorly. But I think there are opportunities to connect with people, make new friends and colleagues, share good information, and help each other. I think is generally good and virtuous, and try to encourage it when possible.
Who cares is very context-specific here. When dealing with someone you don’t naturally interact with, high variance in responses is good up to a certain point. Get a good reaction and you can make a valuable friend and ally, whereas it’s not likely anyone is going to think you were so polite they should come at you with an axe.
Good comment/question. I generally try to err on the side of being more polite and gracious unless there’s a reason not to, because I don’t see any real downside to it.
Does that mean you think the politeness—effect curve is usually much flatter on the right side of the maximum (optimal politeness) than on the left? Exaggerated politeness often seems insincere, distancing or worse so I’m skeptical of the merits of systematically overshooting like that.
Exaggerated politeness often seems insincere, distancing or worse
Upvoted for this. The ‘or worse’ also includes making people disregard the content of what you’re trying to say because you’re signalling low-status/self-effacement so hard that it’s difficult for anyone to take you seriously
You’re right—we’re all strangers on the net, so there’s no real repercussions if something goes over poorly.
That does not bear any resemblance to anything I have said. In fact, I vehemently disagree with your assertion that no harm is caused when you annoy or creep someone out on the internet.
I am sufficiently annoyed by this conversation that I will probably not be able to comment further in a productive fashion.
Offering to help a coworker and offering to help a stranger from an internet forum are two radically different things. The former is something I do on a regular basis; I agree that it is produces good results.
Standards of politeness are incredibly sensitive to context, and from your first line in the parent I take it you agree. Why do you believe this standard of politeness is appropriate to the contexts of both work and a semi-anonymous internet forum?
Okay, cool. You might try offering after a decent exchange—if you look at my profile or “About Me” section on any place I hang out, or any site, I encourage people to look me up for a coffee, or if they have any questions, or I can help at all. Most people don’t take me up on it, but some do—I’ve helped people with their marketing, I’ve helped people get pay raises, improve their writing and creative output, I’ve recommended books and places to stay and go in various cities… and it’s been good. I’ve made friends and colleagues like that.
I learned this because I met one of my best friends this way. When he was a stranger, he emailed me a technical question, and I went over and above the call of duty and wrote him back a 5 page reply with specs and details. He then referred me to a job because I sounded like I knew what I was talking about and invited me to stay with him if I was ever in Los Angeles. I did, and he became one of my best friends. Later, he helped me close a $60,000 deal when I bought out half of a company. We’ve been skiing together in Japan and had lots of cool memories and insights. All because I helped a random stranger, and he was really cool about it afterwards.
It might seem different, but I think most people appreciate it. A fairly prolific photographer/technical blogger emailed me a while back, and after a short exchange, he asked if there’s anything he could help me with. I asked how he made a few of the pictures that were really beautiful? And he shared some software recommendations with me. We’re now friendly acquaintances, and we’ll probably go out for food together next time I’m in San Francisco.
Some people might take it poorly. But who cares? The upside of making a new friend or colleague because you’re always happy to help anyone is huge. Someone doesn’t like it? Well, what’s the downside? Who cares? Most people are grateful anyways, actually, but if a couple people don’t like it… so what? You offer to help someone and they take it the wrong way? Well, nothing significant lost on anyone’s end. The friends and colleagues you make, and the general good you do for the world more than compensates for the (very rare, if ever) negative reaction.
Good comment/question. I generally try to err on the side of being more polite and gracious unless there’s a reason not to, because I don’t see any real downside to it. You’re right—we’re all strangers on the net, so there’s no real repercussions if something goes over poorly. But I think there are opportunities to connect with people, make new friends and colleagues, share good information, and help each other. I think is generally good and virtuous, and try to encourage it when possible.
Isn’t this a rejection of the entire point of your main post?
Who cares is very context-specific here. When dealing with someone you don’t naturally interact with, high variance in responses is good up to a certain point. Get a good reaction and you can make a valuable friend and ally, whereas it’s not likely anyone is going to think you were so polite they should come at you with an axe.
Does that mean you think the politeness—effect curve is usually much flatter on the right side of the maximum (optimal politeness) than on the left?
Exaggerated politeness often seems insincere, distancing or worse so I’m skeptical of the merits of systematically overshooting like that.
Upvoted for this. The ‘or worse’ also includes making people disregard the content of what you’re trying to say because you’re signalling low-status/self-effacement so hard that it’s difficult for anyone to take you seriously
That does not bear any resemblance to anything I have said. In fact, I vehemently disagree with your assertion that no harm is caused when you annoy or creep someone out on the internet.
I am sufficiently annoyed by this conversation that I will probably not be able to comment further in a productive fashion.
Thanks—I was looking for a good way of saying that.