A twelve-year-old sixes_and_sevens had the 1988 print of Psychology: The Essential Science and The Definitive Book of Body Language. He was not a hit with the ladies.
Jeremy tried to be an interesting person. The trouble was that he was the kind of person who, having decided to be an interesting person, would first of all try to find a book called How to be an Interesting Person and then see whether there were any courses available.
But does that mean that it was the wrong choice to try? Could you have known better than to try? And would it have made a difference if you hadn’t tried?
There seem to be a lot of intellectual youths who concentrate their mental energy on every analysis—because they enjoy it. And for many of these it pays off much later. After they became successful at whatever they analysed. Not because of the misapplications of an analytical mind.
But does that mean that it was the wrong choice to try? Could you have known better than to try? And would it have made a difference if you hadn’t tried?
In most cases the alternative to trying to analyse signal to understand whether or not a girl likes you is to ask her out.
Furthermore if you are in your head analysing body language signals that’s likely not enjoyable for the girl with whom you are interacting. She feels like an object that get’s analysed instead of an agent whose actions effect you directly.
It can also be read as simple fear by the girl, when you are tense because you are focused on determining whether or not she likes you and how much.
The person from whom I learned NLP, Chris Mulzer wrote an article about body language: https://www.kikidan.com/news/koerpersprache-deuten-bei-mann-frau.html
It’s a quite funny article if you manage to read it on a deeper level. Among other he tells men that they are supposed to treat it as sign of interest when a girl touches their hair.
Of course it’s no sure sign of attraction and Chris knows this, but telling guys to treat it as a sign of interest is still good because the first main lesson of the article is to assume by default that woman are interested.
This is all nice and well and I mostly agree. But… it doesn’t answer the question. The question is can (and should) an analystical person just switch off analysis—esp. during youth.
The question is:
“Is an analytical person willing to pay the price of not being able to have certain social interactions that the can’t have if their analytical filter is on all the time?”
You can make the case that math is more important and that it’s vital to be able to learn to think numerical in high stakes situation. Vital enough that you are willing to pay the price.
I don’t have a problem with a person making an informant choice to do so. On the other hand I think few people make that choice in an informant way.
It’s nearly impossible for me to have a well intimate well flowing Bachata or Salsa dance when I’m in analytical mode. It’s not compatible.
Are there instances where I spend a few days in my head and then when I’m going dancing I don’t succeed to leave analytical mode? Yes, there are. Are there times when the trade off is worth it? Yes, there are but there a price to be payed.
But let’s say you want to become an academic psychologist who is really good at understanding humans body language. You don’t care about social outcomes but only care about knowledge. Is it beneficial to be 100% of the time in analytical mode? I don’t think so.
You don’t perceive enough information that way because you likely only operate on what you visually perceive.
In theory you can perceive another persons heart rate by seeing how their skin changes color. There are video based computer solutions that do that. I don’t know anyone who can bootstrap that analytically but I do know people who asked me: “Your heart rate seems high. What’s up?”
It’s not that those people don’t do any analysis, analysis has it’s place. But it’s not effective to have it always on.
I’ve -noticed- that my brain has modes, I noticed it when I was a teenager, but have been completely unsuccessful in finding any kind of internal levers to shift modes. (That’s not entirely true—spending time around people who are in the mode I want to be in will put me in that mode. But that’s -extremely- difficult to do, and it works in the reverse, as well—spending time around people in the wrong mode can pull me out of the mode I want to be in.)
That’s not entirely true—spending time around people who are in the mode I want to be in will put me in that mode.
That effect is also why it makes people uncomfortable. If you are in your head and a person openly wants to interact with you it draws them into their head as well.
Different people have different sensitivity to that.
A straightforward way to get out of your head is sports. If your heart beat is at 160 while you run a marathon, your analytical mode is likely of.
There might be a few people on LW who are stable enough in their analytical mode to still have it working in that situation but most people will get kicked out.
That’s a blunt way. I think that tacking up martial arts is more yielding than picking up running as a hobby. Discussing the advantages of various forms of physical activity isn’t something I want to go into that this place, but if you lack physical activity, it’s key.
Another that’s relevant to this conversation is being connected to your emotional desire. If you have a desire to spend time with a woman, saying: “I really enjoy spending time with you. I would like to spend more time with you, are you free on Thursday?”
That’s nonviolent communication (NVC).
You don’t ask: “Do you have a crush on me? I need that information to decide how to interact with you.”
You feel into your desire and put it in words to allow the other person agency.
You don’t hide information from them but are open. If you do that with strong emotional desires it get’s you out of your head.
But don’t go out and memorize that line word by word. If you memorize it word by word and say it in the mirror till you say it flawlessly you aren’t in touch with your emotions in the moment. Reciting memorized lines won’t get you out of your head and the emotional impact on the other person is less and as a result the changes of the other person reacting positively are lower as well.
Whether you can open with every desire will be different in different social environments. At work it might not be appropriate to voice every desire but I think it’s very worthwhile to move in other circles where you can be open.
It’s nearly impossible for me to have a well intimate well flowing Bachata or Salsa dance when I’m in analytical mode. It’s not compatible.
I’ve -noticed- that my brain has modes, … but have been completely unsuccessful in finding any kind of internal levers to shift modes.
I can switch modes relatively easy now. But it took a long time of experience. But it came with the ability to enter the modes at all. My dominant ‘modes’ were neutral and flow and a fair bit of happyness. As a teen there was no need to switch between these or other modes. Of course I preferred it that way. I avoided situations that could make me angry and/or worked to prevent them. Real life had some challenges in the end—but with the conscious experience of these undesirable states came the ability to consciously switch (more or less).
An example: Recently I made a night life club tour for the first time. It was interesting and enjoyable and I switched a lot between enjoying the fun and observant flow. The flow was not exactly ‘analytical’ but close. .
The question is can (and should) an analystical person just switch off analysis
Not switch off, but first, realize that the error bars are very very wide and that his model is probably inappropriate, anyway :-); and second, realize that some things, like learning to ride a bicycle, require experience which cannot be replaced by analysis.
When I was 16, I spent a lot of time “analyzing signals”, and it never went well.
A twelve-year-old sixes_and_sevens had the 1988 print of Psychology: The Essential Science and The Definitive Book of Body Language. He was not a hit with the ladies.
--The Thief of Time
I like to think I was tilling a rich, inner garden.
But does that mean that it was the wrong choice to try? Could you have known better than to try? And would it have made a difference if you hadn’t tried?
There seem to be a lot of intellectual youths who concentrate their mental energy on every analysis—because they enjoy it. And for many of these it pays off much later. After they became successful at whatever they analysed. Not because of the misapplications of an analytical mind.
In most cases the alternative to trying to analyse signal to understand whether or not a girl likes you is to ask her out.
Furthermore if you are in your head analysing body language signals that’s likely not enjoyable for the girl with whom you are interacting. She feels like an object that get’s analysed instead of an agent whose actions effect you directly.
It can also be read as simple fear by the girl, when you are tense because you are focused on determining whether or not she likes you and how much.
The person from whom I learned NLP, Chris Mulzer wrote an article about body language: https://www.kikidan.com/news/koerpersprache-deuten-bei-mann-frau.html It’s a quite funny article if you manage to read it on a deeper level. Among other he tells men that they are supposed to treat it as sign of interest when a girl touches their hair.
Of course it’s no sure sign of attraction and Chris knows this, but telling guys to treat it as a sign of interest is still good because the first main lesson of the article is to assume by default that woman are interested.
This is all nice and well and I mostly agree. But… it doesn’t answer the question. The question is can (and should) an analystical person just switch off analysis—esp. during youth.
The question is: “Is an analytical person willing to pay the price of not being able to have certain social interactions that the can’t have if their analytical filter is on all the time?”
You can make the case that math is more important and that it’s vital to be able to learn to think numerical in high stakes situation. Vital enough that you are willing to pay the price.
I don’t have a problem with a person making an informant choice to do so. On the other hand I think few people make that choice in an informant way.
It’s nearly impossible for me to have a well intimate well flowing Bachata or Salsa dance when I’m in analytical mode. It’s not compatible.
Are there instances where I spend a few days in my head and then when I’m going dancing I don’t succeed to leave analytical mode? Yes, there are. Are there times when the trade off is worth it? Yes, there are but there a price to be payed.
But let’s say you want to become an academic psychologist who is really good at understanding humans body language. You don’t care about social outcomes but only care about knowledge. Is it beneficial to be 100% of the time in analytical mode? I don’t think so. You don’t perceive enough information that way because you likely only operate on what you visually perceive.
In theory you can perceive another persons heart rate by seeing how their skin changes color. There are video based computer solutions that do that. I don’t know anyone who can bootstrap that analytically but I do know people who asked me: “Your heart rate seems high. What’s up?”
It’s not that those people don’t do any analysis, analysis has it’s place. But it’s not effective to have it always on.
How do you control what “mode” your brain is in?
I’ve -noticed- that my brain has modes, I noticed it when I was a teenager, but have been completely unsuccessful in finding any kind of internal levers to shift modes. (That’s not entirely true—spending time around people who are in the mode I want to be in will put me in that mode. But that’s -extremely- difficult to do, and it works in the reverse, as well—spending time around people in the wrong mode can pull me out of the mode I want to be in.)
That effect is also why it makes people uncomfortable. If you are in your head and a person openly wants to interact with you it draws them into their head as well. Different people have different sensitivity to that.
A straightforward way to get out of your head is sports. If your heart beat is at 160 while you run a marathon, your analytical mode is likely of. There might be a few people on LW who are stable enough in their analytical mode to still have it working in that situation but most people will get kicked out.
That’s a blunt way. I think that tacking up martial arts is more yielding than picking up running as a hobby. Discussing the advantages of various forms of physical activity isn’t something I want to go into that this place, but if you lack physical activity, it’s key.
Another that’s relevant to this conversation is being connected to your emotional desire. If you have a desire to spend time with a woman, saying: “I really enjoy spending time with you. I would like to spend more time with you, are you free on Thursday?” That’s nonviolent communication (NVC).
You don’t ask: “Do you have a crush on me? I need that information to decide how to interact with you.” You feel into your desire and put it in words to allow the other person agency. You don’t hide information from them but are open. If you do that with strong emotional desires it get’s you out of your head.
But don’t go out and memorize that line word by word. If you memorize it word by word and say it in the mirror till you say it flawlessly you aren’t in touch with your emotions in the moment. Reciting memorized lines won’t get you out of your head and the emotional impact on the other person is less and as a result the changes of the other person reacting positively are lower as well.
Whether you can open with every desire will be different in different social environments. At work it might not be appropriate to voice every desire but I think it’s very worthwhile to move in other circles where you can be open.
I can switch modes relatively easy now. But it took a long time of experience. But it came with the ability to enter the modes at all. My dominant ‘modes’ were neutral and flow and a fair bit of happyness. As a teen there was no need to switch between these or other modes. Of course I preferred it that way. I avoided situations that could make me angry and/or worked to prevent them. Real life had some challenges in the end—but with the conscious experience of these undesirable states came the ability to consciously switch (more or less).
An example: Recently I made a night life club tour for the first time. It was interesting and enjoyable and I switched a lot between enjoying the fun and observant flow. The flow was not exactly ‘analytical’ but close. .
Not switch off, but first, realize that the error bars are very very wide and that his model is probably inappropriate, anyway :-); and second, realize that some things, like learning to ride a bicycle, require experience which cannot be replaced by analysis.