I think you’re right that dying with dignity is a better frame specifically for recommending against doing unethical stuff. I agree with everything he said about not doing unethical stuff, and tried to point to that (maybe if I have time I will add some more emphasis here).
But that being said, I feel a little frustrated that people think that caveats about not doing unethical stuff are expected in a post like this. It feels similar to if I was writing a post about standing up for yourself and had to add “stand up to bullies—but remember not to murder anyone”. Yes you should not murder bullies. But I wish to live in a world where we don’t have to caveat with that every time. I recognize that we might not live in such a world. Maybe if someone proposes “play to your outs”, people jump to violent plans without realizing how likely that is to be counterproductive to the goal. And this does seem to be somewhat true, though I’m not sure the extent of it. And I find this frustrating. That which is already true… of course, but I wish people would be a little better here.
Recently Eliezer has used the dying with dignity frame a lot outside his April 1st day post. So while some parts of that post may have been a joke, the dying with dignity part was not.
That makes sense. And thank you for emphasizing this.
I think both of our points stand. My point is about the title of this specific April Fools Day post. If it’s gonna be an April Fools Day post, “playing to your outs” isn’t very April Fools-y.
And your point stands I think as well, if I’m interpreting you correctly, that he’s chosen the messaging of “death with dignity” outside of the context of April Fools Day as well, in which case “it’s an April Fools Day post” isn’t part of the explanation.
But that being said, I feel a little frustrated that people think that caveats about not doing unethical stuff are expected in a post like this.
I hear ya for sure. I’m not sure what to think about how necessary it is either. The heuristic of “be more cynical about humans” comes to mind though, and I lean moderately strongly towards thinking it is a good idea.
Recently Eliezer has used the dying with dignity frame a lot outside his April 1st day post. So while some parts of that post may have been a joke, the dying with dignity part was not. For example: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11AY2jUu7X2wJj8cqdA_Ri78y2MU5LS0dT5QrhO2jhzQ/edit?usp=drivesdk
I think you’re right that dying with dignity is a better frame specifically for recommending against doing unethical stuff. I agree with everything he said about not doing unethical stuff, and tried to point to that (maybe if I have time I will add some more emphasis here).
But that being said, I feel a little frustrated that people think that caveats about not doing unethical stuff are expected in a post like this. It feels similar to if I was writing a post about standing up for yourself and had to add “stand up to bullies—but remember not to murder anyone”. Yes you should not murder bullies. But I wish to live in a world where we don’t have to caveat with that every time. I recognize that we might not live in such a world. Maybe if someone proposes “play to your outs”, people jump to violent plans without realizing how likely that is to be counterproductive to the goal. And this does seem to be somewhat true, though I’m not sure the extent of it. And I find this frustrating. That which is already true… of course, but I wish people would be a little better here.
That makes sense. And thank you for emphasizing this.
I think both of our points stand. My point is about the title of this specific April Fools Day post. If it’s gonna be an April Fools Day post, “playing to your outs” isn’t very April Fools-y.
And your point stands I think as well, if I’m interpreting you correctly, that he’s chosen the messaging of “death with dignity” outside of the context of April Fools Day as well, in which case “it’s an April Fools Day post” isn’t part of the explanation.
I hear ya for sure. I’m not sure what to think about how necessary it is either. The heuristic of “be more cynical about humans” comes to mind though, and I lean moderately strongly towards thinking it is a good idea.
Not clear to me. Why not?