Sounds like that was what school was like for many, and this certainly rings true given my school experiences—if you’re in school, then you’re physically forced into proximity with people who will punch you whenever they feel like it, and it’s supposed to teach you an important lesson, or something. Duncan seems unsure whether we have too little of this, or too much.
Note that he says if you tell them you’re not playing, they respond “It sure looks like you’re playing, you’re not punching me back.” Which I think (at least, unless you can call in Reasonable Authority Figure and have them be punished appropriately without becoming a pariah, but actually even then) makes it a moral obligation to punch them. As hard as you can. Right in the face. And ideally then walk away, silently.
So, yeah, not being able to opt out of that seems pretty terrible. I think there’s a lot of value in playing such a game, especially that it forces you to pay attention to the world around you and also to make it clear that the occasional punch/whatever really isn’t a big deal, on an easy-to-actually-get level. Plus, it’s just fun. I think I cried tears of joy during the preview for the movie Tag. But the idea of not even being allowed to opt out of it seems pretty terrible.
And I hereby opt into the game with Duncan and only Duncan. Cause otherwise it’s a asymmetric pickoff, plus I don’t know how to punch well.
Note that he says if you tell them you’re not playing, they respond “It sure looks like you’re playing, you’re not punching me back.” Which I think (at least, unless you can call in Reasonable Authority Figure and have them be punished appropriately without becoming a pariah, but actually even then) makes it a moral obligation to punch them. As hard as you can. Right in the face. And ideally then walk away, silently.
My intuition is that that’s neither the moral obligation, nor an effective way to resolve the issue—I would guess that the right thing to do would be to punch back, but roughly in kind (with regard to power and location).
In the case of a “gentle tap”, as Duncan describes it, I guess I would probably tend towards verbal rebuke, escalating to a mild punch if they gave me shit over it? Can’t say for certain, and context matters, but it feels consistent with my behavior as an adolescent in these sorts of situations. He holds that this can get you ostracized hard, but the world’s a big pond, and it doesn’t really match my life experience, so I’m tentatively not buying that claim.
Escalating what is meant as relatively playful or mild violence to actual violence is probably not moral under most common belief systems, and is likely to make enemies where you could have asserted yourself at less cost.
Agreed that you shouldn’t escalate violence in response to violence—punching them back roughly 10% less hard than they punched you (since aiming at this will make you get it right) is the right response at that point. The not-playing-around sucker punch is the response to their statement that you not punching them back is you playing the game.
Sounds like that was what school was like for many, and this certainly rings true given my school experiences—if you’re in school, then you’re physically forced into proximity with people who will punch you whenever they feel like it, and it’s supposed to teach you an important lesson, or something. Duncan seems unsure whether we have too little of this, or too much.
Note that he says if you tell them you’re not playing, they respond “It sure looks like you’re playing, you’re not punching me back.” Which I think (at least, unless you can call in Reasonable Authority Figure and have them be punished appropriately without becoming a pariah, but actually even then) makes it a moral obligation to punch them. As hard as you can. Right in the face. And ideally then walk away, silently.
So, yeah, not being able to opt out of that seems pretty terrible. I think there’s a lot of value in playing such a game, especially that it forces you to pay attention to the world around you and also to make it clear that the occasional punch/whatever really isn’t a big deal, on an easy-to-actually-get level. Plus, it’s just fun. I think I cried tears of joy during the preview for the movie Tag. But the idea of not even being allowed to opt out of it seems pretty terrible.
And I hereby opt into the game with Duncan and only Duncan. Cause otherwise it’s a asymmetric pickoff, plus I don’t know how to punch well.
My intuition is that that’s neither the moral obligation, nor an effective way to resolve the issue—I would guess that the right thing to do would be to punch back, but roughly in kind (with regard to power and location).
In the case of a “gentle tap”, as Duncan describes it, I guess I would probably tend towards verbal rebuke, escalating to a mild punch if they gave me shit over it? Can’t say for certain, and context matters, but it feels consistent with my behavior as an adolescent in these sorts of situations. He holds that this can get you ostracized hard, but the world’s a big pond, and it doesn’t really match my life experience, so I’m tentatively not buying that claim.
Escalating what is meant as relatively playful or mild violence to actual violence is probably not moral under most common belief systems, and is likely to make enemies where you could have asserted yourself at less cost.
Agreed that you shouldn’t escalate violence in response to violence—punching them back roughly 10% less hard than they punched you (since aiming at this will make you get it right) is the right response at that point. The not-playing-around sucker punch is the response to their statement that you not punching them back is you playing the game.