I’m reading The Last Psychiatrist’s ‘Don’t hate her because she’s successful’ and having trouble with:
‘No, she just means when you get married, to pick someone who supports your goals.” In other words, a business relationship? Arranged marriage, only this time by Match.com‘s algorithm? “No, a marriage based not on passion but on mutual respect and shared values—” Stop, listen to what you are saying. Why would you want a man who agreed to this? Why would a man want a woman who thought like this?’
I mean, why would I not want a man who agreed to this? It seems so obvious.
Edit—I am speaking as a woman of low lust levels (I think—at least some of my friends seem to have higher lll), so I don’t value ‘passion’ highly (either that, or I misread ‘passion’ and it includes something of what I would classify as ‘shared values’ - it is also possible.)
Because I have (I think) low leves of carnal desires, and a desire for external validation of my cleverness and justness. And I certainly don’t want a marriage with a man who cannot respect me.
Obviously a husband who supports your goals is better than one that doesn’t. But if your potential husband doesn’t support your goals then they must not value your happiness and fulfilment, in which case your relationship has already failed. There’s no possible potential husband who it’s a good idea to marry except for the single factor that they don’t support your goals. Such a person can’t exist. So it’s just not a useful decision criterion to ask whether they support your goals; there are other criteria which are strictly better.
I’ve read a lot of TLP and this is roughly my interpretation as well. Alone’s posts do not come with nicely-wrapped thesis statements (although the conclusion of this one is as close as it gets). The point she is making here is that the system doesn’t care about your happiness, but you should. The use of “goals” here isn’t the LessWrong definition, but the more prosaic one where it implies achievements in life and especially in careers. Real people who want to be happy do want someone who is passionate, and the juxtaposition of passionate with “mutual respect and shared values” is meant to imply a respectful but loveless marriage. If someone asks you about your partner and you most central characteristic you have to define your marriage is “mutual respect and shared values” that says something very different than if your central characteristic is “passionate.” It’s sterile, and that sterility is meant to suggest that the person who says “passionate” is going to be happier regardless of their achievements in the workplace.
I think I understood the place, and I almost agree with you, but
There’s no possible potential husband who it’s a good idea to marry except for the single factor that they don’t support your goals. Such a person can’t exist.
I think it happens. I know a person in Crimea who wanted to live and work according to her specialty in Ukraine, but her groom did not want to leave his (and hers) homeland, the Crimea, and they married and live there. If there are people who decided to marry, and (hypothetical, but I think probable) people who decided not to, doesn’t it show that some of them decided ‘not sharing my goals’ is enough of a reason?
They had two conflicting vaues and made a choice, but I would hope that the groom still support her goals within constraints, like “Thank you for agreeing to stay in Crimea with me, lets plan together how you can achieve success while staying here.”
I’m reading The Last Psychiatrist’s ‘Don’t hate her because she’s successful’ and having trouble with:
‘No, she just means when you get married, to pick someone who supports your goals.” In other words, a business relationship? Arranged marriage, only this time by Match.com‘s algorithm? “No, a marriage based not on passion but on mutual respect and shared values—” Stop, listen to what you are saying. Why would you want a man who agreed to this? Why would a man want a woman who thought like this?’
I mean, why would I not want a man who agreed to this? It seems so obvious.
Edit—I am speaking as a woman of low lust levels (I think—at least some of my friends seem to have higher lll), so I don’t value ‘passion’ highly (either that, or I misread ‘passion’ and it includes something of what I would classify as ‘shared values’ - it is also possible.)
Why? Genuine question because no, it is not obvious to me.
Because I have (I think) low leves of carnal desires, and a desire for external validation of my cleverness and justness. And I certainly don’t want a marriage with a man who cannot respect me.
The you should edit/clarify your original post as I had the opposite interpretation, hence confusion.
Obviously a husband who supports your goals is better than one that doesn’t. But if your potential husband doesn’t support your goals then they must not value your happiness and fulfilment, in which case your relationship has already failed. There’s no possible potential husband who it’s a good idea to marry except for the single factor that they don’t support your goals. Such a person can’t exist. So it’s just not a useful decision criterion to ask whether they support your goals; there are other criteria which are strictly better.
I’ve read a lot of TLP and this is roughly my interpretation as well. Alone’s posts do not come with nicely-wrapped thesis statements (although the conclusion of this one is as close as it gets). The point she is making here is that the system doesn’t care about your happiness, but you should. The use of “goals” here isn’t the LessWrong definition, but the more prosaic one where it implies achievements in life and especially in careers. Real people who want to be happy do want someone who is passionate, and the juxtaposition of passionate with “mutual respect and shared values” is meant to imply a respectful but loveless marriage. If someone asks you about your partner and you most central characteristic you have to define your marriage is “mutual respect and shared values” that says something very different than if your central characteristic is “passionate.” It’s sterile, and that sterility is meant to suggest that the person who says “passionate” is going to be happier regardless of their achievements in the workplace.
Passion fades. If you want a lifelong relationship, and not an eventual divorce, it does require comparability / sharing of life goals.
I was about to comment something to the effect that those two desiderata aren’t mutually exclusive—but the Berkson paradox thing does apply.
I think I understood the place, and I almost agree with you, but
I think it happens. I know a person in Crimea who wanted to live and work according to her specialty in Ukraine, but her groom did not want to leave his (and hers) homeland, the Crimea, and they married and live there. If there are people who decided to marry, and (hypothetical, but I think probable) people who decided not to, doesn’t it show that some of them decided ‘not sharing my goals’ is enough of a reason?
They had two conflicting vaues and made a choice, but I would hope that the groom still support her goals within constraints, like “Thank you for agreeing to stay in Crimea with me, lets plan together how you can achieve success while staying here.”
From what I heard of him he’s wonderful and probably does that:)