When I said that I considered a raw-food vegan paleo diet nuts, that’s what I meant, that they just seem to difficult to reconcile.
This sounds to me like being stuck in the mindset that a diet has to be about deprivation or eating foods you don’t particularly enjoy.
My statement wasn’t an argument against meat; it was cautionary, and an appropriate response is to point out that I really like eating rice and beans, and should be equally cautious about arguing for their health benefits because of the stake I have in wanting those to be healthful.
My point about bread was that a 4oz piece of bread is not as unhealthy as a 4oz piece of hard candy. I don’t consider refined carbohydrates, or even unrefined but purer carbohydrates (such as potatoes) healthful. I’m having a lot of trouble finding good sources to either back me up or discredit what I’m trying to say (the video linked to earlier is one of the former), but the impression that I’m under is that starch doesn’t cause harmful insulin responses or large insulin spikes if eaten in the much less pure forms; that is, even significant quantities of carbohydrates are digested slowly enough to not cause problems if they are molecularly dispersed among protein, fats, or most especially fiber, and that this is a super-linear effect, more than would be explained simply by eating less of a pure carbohydrate.
but the impression that I’m under is that starch doesn’t cause harmful insulin responses or large insulin spikes if eaten in the much less pure forms; that is, even significant quantities of carbohydrates are digested slowly enough to not cause problems if they are molecularly dispersed among protein, fats, or most especially fiber
I’m not too sure on what differences there are between starch and carbohydrates more generally but I believe it is true that insulin response is lower when carbohydrates are consumed in the form of foods with other components. This is the basic reasoning behind getting your carbs in the form of fruits and vegetables (which also provide plentiful fiber) rather than grains and tubers in paleo type diets. I’ve even seen it claimed that you are better off ordering fries rather than baked potato because the fat slows the rate of absorption but I don’t know how well sourced that is.
Potatoes (not baked), bananas, wild rice and other similar medium GI foods are generally viewed as ok in small quantities by the paleo diet resources I’ve read. They still provoke significantly greater glucose response than things like green vegetables, fruits and berries however while having less overall nutritional value and not significantly greater fiber content.
I bet french fries could be better than a baked potato, but for that to be the case I think they would have to be unsalted (though the potassium in potatoes partially counteracts the salt) and fried in more healthful oils (probably saturated, since heat + unsaturated oil → trans fats). This sounds like an experiment worth performing on myself; I like making french fries, and I could see how satiated I feel after a similar calorie-worth of french fries versus baked potato, and how I feel an hour later (more or less sluggish). I don’t eat much potato in any form, but answering that question (at least with regard to myself) might be a worthy enterprise.
I personally think bananas are great, but it seems like they don’t fit into the paleo scheme because they are so dramatically different than anything that existed in our ancestral environment. Wild potatoes are too toxic for humans to eat, even cooked IIRC.
When I said that I considered a raw-food vegan paleo diet nuts, that’s what I meant, that they just seem to difficult to reconcile.
My statement wasn’t an argument against meat; it was cautionary, and an appropriate response is to point out that I really like eating rice and beans, and should be equally cautious about arguing for their health benefits because of the stake I have in wanting those to be healthful.
My point about bread was that a 4oz piece of bread is not as unhealthy as a 4oz piece of hard candy. I don’t consider refined carbohydrates, or even unrefined but purer carbohydrates (such as potatoes) healthful. I’m having a lot of trouble finding good sources to either back me up or discredit what I’m trying to say (the video linked to earlier is one of the former), but the impression that I’m under is that starch doesn’t cause harmful insulin responses or large insulin spikes if eaten in the much less pure forms; that is, even significant quantities of carbohydrates are digested slowly enough to not cause problems if they are molecularly dispersed among protein, fats, or most especially fiber, and that this is a super-linear effect, more than would be explained simply by eating less of a pure carbohydrate.
I’m not too sure on what differences there are between starch and carbohydrates more generally but I believe it is true that insulin response is lower when carbohydrates are consumed in the form of foods with other components. This is the basic reasoning behind getting your carbs in the form of fruits and vegetables (which also provide plentiful fiber) rather than grains and tubers in paleo type diets. I’ve even seen it claimed that you are better off ordering fries rather than baked potato because the fat slows the rate of absorption but I don’t know how well sourced that is.
Potatoes (not baked), bananas, wild rice and other similar medium GI foods are generally viewed as ok in small quantities by the paleo diet resources I’ve read. They still provoke significantly greater glucose response than things like green vegetables, fruits and berries however while having less overall nutritional value and not significantly greater fiber content.
People generally eat baked potatoes with butter, cheese, and/or sour cream—not to mention meat.
For practical purposes, the carbs in a baked potato are very likely to be buffered with fat and protein.
I bet french fries could be better than a baked potato, but for that to be the case I think they would have to be unsalted (though the potassium in potatoes partially counteracts the salt) and fried in more healthful oils (probably saturated, since heat + unsaturated oil → trans fats). This sounds like an experiment worth performing on myself; I like making french fries, and I could see how satiated I feel after a similar calorie-worth of french fries versus baked potato, and how I feel an hour later (more or less sluggish). I don’t eat much potato in any form, but answering that question (at least with regard to myself) might be a worthy enterprise.
I personally think bananas are great, but it seems like they don’t fit into the paleo scheme because they are so dramatically different than anything that existed in our ancestral environment. Wild potatoes are too toxic for humans to eat, even cooked IIRC.