I tend to vacillate on the cryonics debate and for me its beside the point since I really can’t afford it as a broke college student (who isn’t particularly at risk of dying). But one can certainly imagine better evidence that it would work other than an actual revivification. All sorts of discoveries in cryobiology could provide additional evidence that cryonics will work. Better results freezing and reviving other animals, for example.
Inverting the event, you may say that you are looking for evidence that it will never, ever be possible to revive someone. What sort of evidence will work for that? You are not looking for what is impossible now, you are not looking at what will be impossible for the next 50 years. You are looking for what will never be possible.
I don’t see how any details of the progress in technology are in the slightest relevant to that question.
That is a good point. But progress matter because there is a non-zero chance that some disaster strikes, or the cryogenics firm dissolves and you never get revived. I also think the farther into the future you get the less interested future people will be in reviving (by comparison) the mentally inferior. Plus I’d much rather wake up sooner than later since I’d rather not be so far behind my new contemporaries. So confidence that revival will be possible sooner than later increases the incentive to pay for the procedure.
Edit- also, the longer revivification technology takes the more likely the chances are for one of alicorn’s dystopian scenarios. Plus the far future might be throughly repugnant to the values of the present day, even if it isn’t a dystopia.
I also think the farther into the future you get the less interested future people will be in reviving (by comparison) the mentally inferior.
This sounds possible but not at all obvious. It seems to me that so far, interest in historical people and compassion for the mentally inferior have if anything increased over time. This certainly doesn’t mean they’ll continue to do so out into the far future, but it does mean I’d need some really good reasons to support expecting them to.
So I can envision future persons wanting to meet some people from the past for historical reasons as you say. But I’m not sure we’d bring back thousands of Homo Habilis if we had the chance. One or two might be interesting- but what would we do with thousands?
“Future persons” are not a monolithic agent; all it takes is one agent able and willing to revive you, maybe the cryonics organization. And as Mulciber said, compassion is a likely motivation as well.
That depends on on what the population is in the far far future and the future popularity of cryonics. The farther into the future we’re talking about the more uncertainty we should have about these things. I was never claiming that it is particularly likely the preserved would be unwanted, just that such uncertainties give reason to be concerned with progress in cryobiology.
Frankly, I think that future societies will be so resources-rich that they’ll revive everyone because the small increase in entertainment thus provided will easily pay for the costs. However, if that’s not so, there’s an advantage to being one of the rare early preservees over the common later ones you suppose might arise; we would have better novelty value, and we’d remember things from further back.
I don’t know. After I met my hundredth white, male, transhumanist who died circa 2050 I’d probably go back to whatever I was doing before I started reviving people. I imagine if we’re so resource rich there will be somewhat better forms of entertainment.
But yeah, If I sign up I’m definitely hoping people in the future are obsessed with stories from the past and will pay me quite a bit for them… since I really won’t have any other marketable skills.
I tend to vacillate on the cryonics debate and for me its beside the point since I really can’t afford it as a broke college student (who isn’t particularly at risk of dying). But one can certainly imagine better evidence that it would work other than an actual revivification. All sorts of discoveries in cryobiology could provide additional evidence that cryonics will work. Better results freezing and reviving other animals, for example.
Inverting the event, you may say that you are looking for evidence that it will never, ever be possible to revive someone. What sort of evidence will work for that? You are not looking for what is impossible now, you are not looking at what will be impossible for the next 50 years. You are looking for what will never be possible.
I don’t see how any details of the progress in technology are in the slightest relevant to that question.
That is a good point. But progress matter because there is a non-zero chance that some disaster strikes, or the cryogenics firm dissolves and you never get revived. I also think the farther into the future you get the less interested future people will be in reviving (by comparison) the mentally inferior. Plus I’d much rather wake up sooner than later since I’d rather not be so far behind my new contemporaries. So confidence that revival will be possible sooner than later increases the incentive to pay for the procedure.
Edit- also, the longer revivification technology takes the more likely the chances are for one of alicorn’s dystopian scenarios. Plus the far future might be throughly repugnant to the values of the present day, even if it isn’t a dystopia.
This sounds possible but not at all obvious. It seems to me that so far, interest in historical people and compassion for the mentally inferior have if anything increased over time. This certainly doesn’t mean they’ll continue to do so out into the far future, but it does mean I’d need some really good reasons to support expecting them to.
So I can envision future persons wanting to meet some people from the past for historical reasons as you say. But I’m not sure we’d bring back thousands of Homo Habilis if we had the chance. One or two might be interesting- but what would we do with thousands?
“Future persons” are not a monolithic agent; all it takes is one agent able and willing to revive you, maybe the cryonics organization. And as Mulciber said, compassion is a likely motivation as well.
Thousands would still only be one per ~million citizens. Cryonauts would be at least as rare.
That depends on on what the population is in the far far future and the future popularity of cryonics. The farther into the future we’re talking about the more uncertainty we should have about these things. I was never claiming that it is particularly likely the preserved would be unwanted, just that such uncertainties give reason to be concerned with progress in cryobiology.
Frankly, I think that future societies will be so resources-rich that they’ll revive everyone because the small increase in entertainment thus provided will easily pay for the costs. However, if that’s not so, there’s an advantage to being one of the rare early preservees over the common later ones you suppose might arise; we would have better novelty value, and we’d remember things from further back.
Don’t think of hedonic entertainment, think of the subjectively objective right thing to do.
I don’t know. After I met my hundredth white, male, transhumanist who died circa 2050 I’d probably go back to whatever I was doing before I started reviving people. I imagine if we’re so resource rich there will be somewhat better forms of entertainment.
But yeah, If I sign up I’m definitely hoping people in the future are obsessed with stories from the past and will pay me quite a bit for them… since I really won’t have any other marketable skills.