Possibly, but to know that, I would have to be shown definition of what Romantic Love actually is, aside from “deep friendship+sex”. Even the Wikipedia article on Romance/Love lists a whole bunch of contradicting definitions that boil down to one of:
1. Friendship and sex (Emotional Bond+ Physical Bond).
2. Biological mate bonding to create offspring.
3. ”...You know, that lyrical, limerical, ephemeral thing that we all experience, so we won’t define it...”
My guess is that answer 3 is basically social memetics to cover and normalize that love is basically 2 by way of 1.
And since asexual people supposedly feel Love as well, this means that Love is essentially an intense desire for Friendship that forms a lasting bond.
Do you recognise Limerance? I was going to say that despite not being aromantic, I find it hard to pin down exactly what distinguishes romantic love from a certain kind of friendship + sexual attraction. But on reflection, I think limerance (or something like it) is basically the missing piece. (In fact, I think that when people talk about romantic love, they are more reliably referring to something that contains limerance than to something that contains deep friendship.)
I honestly cannot recall I ever felt limerence, even when I felt love. This led me to research it, and it seems like limerence is a highly culture specific, and is likely more a cultural meme than an emotion inherent to human brains. If I were to guess, I would say limerence is a side effect of the emotional and sexual frustration of the young and inexperienced humans who dabble in their first relationships, and since hearing/gossiping/reading about other people’s romantic frustrations is exciting, it became a meme.
To support this theory, we see much greater emphasis on limerence/limerice/limerance in cultures and ages when virginity until marriage was considered sacred, and young people were gender-segregated. In free-love egalitarian cultures, we see remarkably little dramatic limerice, and in fact, we see attempts by the youth to artificially create romantic drama (ex: going out of their way to date dangerous people, or pining over an inaccessible celebrity) to achieve a semblance of limerice.
As we grew in numbers and social complexity, it is easy to encounter someone with a completely different desire/expectation of limerance in their life, which I think is the reason romantic relationships became so difficult.
Unsurprisingly, there seems to be very little desire for limerice among LWers and rationalists in general, which explains why a higher-than-average number of us are single, or dating fellow rationalists.
There’s a difference between “having a desire for limerence” and “being the person capable of developing limerence.” Some people may not have a desire for it, but they get limerent pretty quickly with the right triggers. (Some people may even hate the fact that their brain does this because it keeps getting them into bad situations, but they keep developing limerence and are a slave to it.)
This led me to research it, and it seems like limerence is a highly culture specific, and is likely more a cultural meme than an emotion inherent to human brains.
It’s a distinct emotional state comparable to being on a powerful drug. So, it can’t just be a cultural meme. Of course, it could be that the frequency with which the emotional state is elicited is culture-dependent. (Just like some culture have a higher/lower prevalence of depression.)What’s also culture-dependent is whether you romanticize limerence or whether you look at it as something dysfunctional. As you mention, some people seem to think good romance requires limerence. I think that’s irrational (unless you care more about the “hedonics” of being in love than finding someone actually compatible).
I agree that there’s a connection from limerence to drama – though this is for indirect correlational reasons rather than limerence being defined through drama.
If I were to guess, I would say limerence is a side effect of the emotional and sexual frustration of the young and inexperienced humans who dabble in their first relationships,
I suspect the same thing, I think it might have to do with unmet needs and the fantasy of fulfilling them all through this one ideal person you met (who you don’t really know yet, but you’re projecting onto them everything that can fix your loneliness/pain). (It can be completely non-sexual). What I don’t understand is how you go from the description “side effect from frustration” to “it’s a cultural meme.” Depression is an emotional state that we could describe as being a side effect of unmet needs as well, but this doesn’t make it a cultural meme.
I think there also might be a lot genetic variation to people’s propensity to develop limerence?
It would be fascinating if propensity for limerence was genetically determined, because limerence directly influences our mating/breeding habits. For one, teen pregnancy might very well be a side effect of this.
Possibly, but to know that, I would have to be shown definition of what Romantic Love actually is, aside from “deep friendship+sex”. Even the Wikipedia article on Romance/Love lists a whole bunch of contradicting definitions that boil down to one of:
1. Friendship and sex (Emotional Bond+ Physical Bond).
2. Biological mate bonding to create offspring.
3. ”...You know, that lyrical, limerical, ephemeral thing that we all experience, so we won’t define it...”
My guess is that answer 3 is basically social memetics to cover and normalize that love is basically 2 by way of 1.
And since asexual people supposedly feel Love as well, this means that Love is essentially an intense desire for Friendship that forms a lasting bond.
Do you recognise Limerance? I was going to say that despite not being aromantic, I find it hard to pin down exactly what distinguishes romantic love from a certain kind of friendship + sexual attraction. But on reflection, I think limerance (or something like it) is basically the missing piece. (In fact, I think that when people talk about romantic love, they are more reliably referring to something that contains limerance than to something that contains deep friendship.)
I honestly cannot recall I ever felt limerence, even when I felt love. This led me to research it, and it seems like limerence is a highly culture specific, and is likely more a cultural meme than an emotion inherent to human brains. If I were to guess, I would say limerence is a side effect of the emotional and sexual frustration of the young and inexperienced humans who dabble in their first relationships, and since hearing/gossiping/reading about other people’s romantic frustrations is exciting, it became a meme.
To support this theory, we see much greater emphasis on limerence/limerice/limerance in cultures and ages when virginity until marriage was considered sacred, and young people were gender-segregated. In free-love egalitarian cultures, we see remarkably little dramatic limerice, and in fact, we see attempts by the youth to artificially create romantic drama (ex: going out of their way to date dangerous people, or pining over an inaccessible celebrity) to achieve a semblance of limerice.
As we grew in numbers and social complexity, it is easy to encounter someone with a completely different desire/expectation of limerance in their life, which I think is the reason romantic relationships became so difficult.
Unsurprisingly, there seems to be very little desire for limerice among LWers and rationalists in general, which explains why a higher-than-average number of us are single, or dating fellow rationalists.
There’s a difference between “having a desire for limerence” and “being the person capable of developing limerence.” Some people may not have a desire for it, but they get limerent pretty quickly with the right triggers. (Some people may even hate the fact that their brain does this because it keeps getting them into bad situations, but they keep developing limerence and are a slave to it.)
It’s a distinct emotional state comparable to being on a powerful drug. So, it can’t just be a cultural meme. Of course, it could be that the frequency with which the emotional state is elicited is culture-dependent. (Just like some culture have a higher/lower prevalence of depression.)What’s also culture-dependent is whether you romanticize limerence or whether you look at it as something dysfunctional. As you mention, some people seem to think good romance requires limerence. I think that’s irrational (unless you care more about the “hedonics” of being in love than finding someone actually compatible).
I agree that there’s a connection from limerence to drama – though this is for indirect correlational reasons rather than limerence being defined through drama.
I suspect the same thing, I think it might have to do with unmet needs and the fantasy of fulfilling them all through this one ideal person you met (who you don’t really know yet, but you’re projecting onto them everything that can fix your loneliness/pain). (It can be completely non-sexual). What I don’t understand is how you go from the description “side effect from frustration” to “it’s a cultural meme.” Depression is an emotional state that we could describe as being a side effect of unmet needs as well, but this doesn’t make it a cultural meme.
I think there also might be a lot genetic variation to people’s propensity to develop limerence?
It would be fascinating if propensity for limerence was genetically determined, because limerence directly influences our mating/breeding habits. For one, teen pregnancy might very well be a side effect of this.
Then you’re aromantic with 100% certainty.