Good data. All right. Fair enough. We’ll see if it actually convinces either of them to dial it down, but at least you’re live, and that’s pretty good, although there’s the risk that this still mostly just gives the whole thing more attention. If it works on the particular people you’re addressing by name in the article, and they therefore dial it down, and this is the dominant effect, then that’s a win. One can hope.
From looking briefly specifically at Reich in more detail, it appears to me that he’s both making a nuanced case that the current tax and organizational structures we set aside for charitable works are bad designs, and using simple anti-billionaire and anti-action rhetoric—raising the alarm that someone might use their resources to (literally) do something that you couldn’t (literally) vote against, or that someone might “seek to influence public policy,” or your quote of “ask everyone involved to bend over in gratitude for her benevolence and genius in sprinkling around some social benefits.”
Here’s the thing. You can be a conflict theorist and a basically good person. And when I look at what Reich is actually doing, that seems to be what’s going on, to me—he’s modeling this as a conflict between democracy and private interests, and not much caring about the things you care about because they don’t impact the relevant conflicts. I don’t know the politics or history of the whole thing, so I could be completely off base.
(The reddit comment seems like it’s from someone who was basically in agreement before but nervous about things one is right to be nervous about, and happy to have that nervousness put into perspective. I do agree there’s non-zero value in preaching to the choir on occasion. )
As for posts with concerns in the future, I’d be happy to join the group that reads such posts and offers thoughts. One thing I like about that is it feels (to me, and to those I share edits with) much easier to push back against things one disagrees with, when something isn’t finalized. You’re welcome to join my group too, if you’d like.
I’m a little confused, and I think it might be because you’re using “conflict theorist” different from how I do.
For me, a conflict theorist is someone who thinks the main driver of disagreement is self-interest rather than honest mistakes. There can be mistake theorists and conflict theorists on both sides of the “is billionaire philanthropy good?” question, and on the “are individual actions acceptable even though they’re nondemocratic?” question.
It sounds like you’re using it differently, so I want to make sure I know exactly what you mean before replying.
You say you’ve given up understanding the number of basically people who disagree with things you think are obvious and morally obligatory. I suspect there’s a big confusion about what ‘basically good’ means here, I’m making a note of it for future posting, but moving past that for now: When you examine specific cases of such disagreements happening, what do you find how often? (I keep writing possible things, but on reflection avoiding anchoring you is better)
I think I usually find we’re working off different paradigms, in the really strong Kuhnian sense of paradigm.
For me, a conflict theorist is someone who thinks the main driver of disagreement is self-interest rather than honest mistakes.
I don’t see how to reconcile this with:
Conflict theorists treat politics as war. Different blocs with different interests are forever fighting to determine whether the State exists to enrich the Elites or to help the People.
It’s pretty hard to tell what you find hard to reconcile in the two quotes.
‘Politics as war’ is the same as ‘different sides fight for their own self-interest’, e.g. “whether the State exists to enrich the Elites or to help the People”.
The ‘honest mistakes’ perspective would be that any particular policy might be good or bad, or whatever mix thereof, and disagreements about that would be due to different beliefs and NOT due to simply supporting one’s side.
In particular, I am not convinced Reich isn’t in the class “people opposed to all private actions not under ’democratic control” for actually impactful values of private action. Sure, he thinks it’s fine to have tiny private actions that effectively add up to democratic control, but he is concerned that we can’t vote a foundation’s president out of office if we don’t like what the foundation is doing, he talks a lot about the democratic vs. anti-democratic frame, and so on. I don’t know him, but from the quotes I have to work with here…
According to the links from the Scott’s post, Rob Reich’s position is that we should tax charitable donations at the exact same rates as all other spending, with an exception for under $1000/year donors getting 25% back. No more, no less.
I personally think that this is a blindingly stupid idea because it assumes that everyone who donates more than that will donate even more to compensate for the government taking a lion’s share of their donations, because he sort of got himself into a frame of mind where he sees donations as more of a privilege to change the world according to one’s wishes given to the donors, not as a lifeline for the recipients.
But nothing in the two articles about his position I read suggests anything more sinister than that misguided plan, which even makes sense on his own terms.
How you think about the idea depends a lot on the framing. As I understand, “we should tax donations” is actually “we should stop refunding/deducting donations”. “We should tax churches and charities just like other endeavors” is more direct. Honestly, I’m in favor of private (even billionaire) philanthropy, but we should tax all activity equally without carve-outs that distort decision-making, especially since the government is so bad at distinguishing useful from useless.
To the extent that the government subsidizes it (by allowing it as a tax deduction, and by failing to tax the economic activity), the government has a say in it’s use. Which I would prefer not be the case.
Good data. All right. Fair enough. We’ll see if it actually convinces either of them to dial it down, but at least you’re live, and that’s pretty good, although there’s the risk that this still mostly just gives the whole thing more attention. If it works on the particular people you’re addressing by name in the article, and they therefore dial it down, and this is the dominant effect, then that’s a win. One can hope.
From looking briefly specifically at Reich in more detail, it appears to me that he’s both making a nuanced case that the current tax and organizational structures we set aside for charitable works are bad designs, and using simple anti-billionaire and anti-action rhetoric—raising the alarm that someone might use their resources to (literally) do something that you couldn’t (literally) vote against, or that someone might “seek to influence public policy,” or your quote of “ask everyone involved to bend over in gratitude for her benevolence and genius in sprinkling around some social benefits.”
Here’s the thing. You can be a conflict theorist and a basically good person. And when I look at what Reich is actually doing, that seems to be what’s going on, to me—he’s modeling this as a conflict between democracy and private interests, and not much caring about the things you care about because they don’t impact the relevant conflicts. I don’t know the politics or history of the whole thing, so I could be completely off base.
(The reddit comment seems like it’s from someone who was basically in agreement before but nervous about things one is right to be nervous about, and happy to have that nervousness put into perspective. I do agree there’s non-zero value in preaching to the choir on occasion. )
As for posts with concerns in the future, I’d be happy to join the group that reads such posts and offers thoughts. One thing I like about that is it feels (to me, and to those I share edits with) much easier to push back against things one disagrees with, when something isn’t finalized. You’re welcome to join my group too, if you’d like.
I’m a little confused, and I think it might be because you’re using “conflict theorist” different from how I do.
For me, a conflict theorist is someone who thinks the main driver of disagreement is self-interest rather than honest mistakes. There can be mistake theorists and conflict theorists on both sides of the “is billionaire philanthropy good?” question, and on the “are individual actions acceptable even though they’re nondemocratic?” question.
It sounds like you’re using it differently, so I want to make sure I know exactly what you mean before replying.
I think I usually find we’re working off different paradigms, in the really strong Kuhnian sense of paradigm.
I don’t see how to reconcile this with:
It’s pretty hard to tell what you find hard to reconcile in the two quotes.
‘Politics as war’ is the same as ‘different sides fight for their own self-interest’, e.g. “whether the State exists to enrich the Elites or to help the People”.
The ‘honest mistakes’ perspective would be that any particular policy might be good or bad, or whatever mix thereof, and disagreements about that would be due to different beliefs and NOT due to simply supporting one’s side.
In particular, I am not convinced Reich isn’t in the class “people opposed to all private actions not under ’democratic control” for actually impactful values of private action. Sure, he thinks it’s fine to have tiny private actions that effectively add up to democratic control, but he is concerned that we can’t vote a foundation’s president out of office if we don’t like what the foundation is doing, he talks a lot about the democratic vs. anti-democratic frame, and so on. I don’t know him, but from the quotes I have to work with here…
According to the links from the Scott’s post, Rob Reich’s position is that we should tax charitable donations at the exact same rates as all other spending, with an exception for under $1000/year donors getting 25% back. No more, no less.
I personally think that this is a blindingly stupid idea because it assumes that everyone who donates more than that will donate even more to compensate for the government taking a lion’s share of their donations, because he sort of got himself into a frame of mind where he sees donations as more of a privilege to change the world according to one’s wishes given to the donors, not as a lifeline for the recipients.
But nothing in the two articles about his position I read suggests anything more sinister than that misguided plan, which even makes sense on his own terms.
How you think about the idea depends a lot on the framing. As I understand, “we should tax donations” is actually “we should stop refunding/deducting donations”. “We should tax churches and charities just like other endeavors” is more direct. Honestly, I’m in favor of private (even billionaire) philanthropy, but we should tax all activity equally without carve-outs that distort decision-making, especially since the government is so bad at distinguishing useful from useless.
To the extent that the government subsidizes it (by allowing it as a tax deduction, and by failing to tax the economic activity), the government has a say in it’s use. Which I would prefer not be the case.