I’m less annoyed by the use of TV Tropes vocab, and more irritated by their incorrect use.
For example, he says that “they tend to nickname Hollywood Atheist” when no one uses that term except TV Tropes (and maybe some agnostics and atheists). The term explicitly means a certain caricature of atheism, recognizing that it is a caricature. No theist is going to use the term.
In fact I have been called a Hollywood Atheist by theists, and it was an “incorrect” usage of the term: theists and atheists alike use it to mean “Atheist I don’t like”. Kinda like “Mary Sue” being “character I don’t like” or “slut” being “woman that sleeps with men other than me”/”woman that sleeps with more men than me”.
He’s using the term slightly differently. In that context he means “Hollywood atheist” to mean literally a Hollywood actor who is an atheist with the implication that Hollywood is full of them. Throw in some connotations about decadence and drugs too. In the context of TV Tropes, a Hollywood Atheist has a different meaning.
No, I know all those words, but you’re using them way too much. A lot of them are very apt labels, but they just don’t look right outside of TV Tropes. Just like outdated slang.
I agree—“Brown Note” and “Berzerk Button” were unneeded. I’d rather we didn’t assume any cultural baggage in readers of LessWrong. Using those words is like a sign saying “If you don’t know what this means, you’re not hip!”. Which is especially bad because it’s not true—understanging TVTropes slang is not considered a prerequisite for reading LessWrong.
Personally, I am a Troper and find the use of tropes words on here useful. In some ways, it’s like a whole other Sequences worth of concepts explained where people can pack them into short phrases. I wouldn’t want tvtropes to be required reading for LW, but I think the sort of person who would enjoy one and find it useful would find the other to be the same.
Whereas I, as someone who isn’t ‘a Troper’ find the use of one set of insular jargon on this site frustrating enough without introducing a second set from a totally unrelated website. If the goal is comprehensibility, the use of unfamiliar or niche terms should be kept to a minimum, not encouraged.
I agree with you. I’ll watch my own comments and try to avoid tvtropes jargon. In addition, I might decide to find the few most commonly used pieces of it on here and put pages for them on the wiki which people can then link to. Does that strike people as a good idea, or a bad idea, or a waste of time?
There are definitely some TV Tropes concepts that deserve exposure and/or formalization over here, but there’s a style mismatch: TV Tropes jargon is meant to be funny, accessible, and clear (in roughly that order in practice, although policy reverses it) to an audience of mostly young media nerds. Consequently it comes off as lulzy and incomprehensible to people who are not young media nerds. I don’t think that lines up very well with what this site is trying to do.
I’d recommend writing up the relevant concepts in Less Wrong style, with original names (or the standard names if applicable), but citing TV Tropes as appropriate.
Most of the Logic Tropes index could find a home rewritten as articles or on the wiki, as would about half the Intelligence Tropes. “TV Genius” strikes me as a particularly good candidate, if we don’t already cover the idea in some form (which is more than possible).
There’s also a large set of tropes that would make good resources for an article, but which would require a very different treatment to flourish here; “And Man Grew Proud” comes to mind.
That’s the main thing I was worried about. If it occurred to you too, there’s probably good reason to worry. I won’t do it.
EDIT: I have made a couple wiki articles inspired by TVtropes, but not the ones that are overused on here.
TV Tropes will ruin your vocabulary.
I’m less annoyed by the use of TV Tropes vocab, and more irritated by their incorrect use.
For example, he says that “they tend to nickname Hollywood Atheist” when no one uses that term except TV Tropes (and maybe some agnostics and atheists). The term explicitly means a certain caricature of atheism, recognizing that it is a caricature. No theist is going to use the term.
In fact I have been called a Hollywood Atheist by theists, and it was an “incorrect” usage of the term: theists and atheists alike use it to mean “Atheist I don’t like”. Kinda like “Mary Sue” being “character I don’t like” or “slut” being “woman that sleeps with men other than me”/”woman that sleeps with more men than me”.
Not even Kirk Cameron? ;-)
He’s using the term slightly differently. In that context he means “Hollywood atheist” to mean literally a Hollywood actor who is an atheist with the implication that Hollywood is full of them. Throw in some connotations about decadence and drugs too. In the context of TV Tropes, a Hollywood Atheist has a different meaning.
Maybe I should pothole all the wiki words I’ve been using? I was under the impression they were self-explanatory, but that might be myopia on my part.
No, I know all those words, but you’re using them way too much. A lot of them are very apt labels, but they just don’t look right outside of TV Tropes. Just like outdated slang.
I agree—“Brown Note” and “Berzerk Button” were unneeded. I’d rather we didn’t assume any cultural baggage in readers of LessWrong. Using those words is like a sign saying “If you don’t know what this means, you’re not hip!”. Which is especially bad because it’s not true—understanging TVTropes slang is not considered a prerequisite for reading LessWrong.
… So I am being… so to speak… Totally Radical… -_-;
Personally, I am a Troper and find the use of tropes words on here useful. In some ways, it’s like a whole other Sequences worth of concepts explained where people can pack them into short phrases. I wouldn’t want tvtropes to be required reading for LW, but I think the sort of person who would enjoy one and find it useful would find the other to be the same.
Whereas I, as someone who isn’t ‘a Troper’ find the use of one set of insular jargon on this site frustrating enough without introducing a second set from a totally unrelated website. If the goal is comprehensibility, the use of unfamiliar or niche terms should be kept to a minimum, not encouraged.
I agree with you. I’ll watch my own comments and try to avoid tvtropes jargon. In addition, I might decide to find the few most commonly used pieces of it on here and put pages for them on the wiki which people can then link to. Does that strike people as a good idea, or a bad idea, or a waste of time?
There are definitely some TV Tropes concepts that deserve exposure and/or formalization over here, but there’s a style mismatch: TV Tropes jargon is meant to be funny, accessible, and clear (in roughly that order in practice, although policy reverses it) to an audience of mostly young media nerds. Consequently it comes off as lulzy and incomprehensible to people who are not young media nerds. I don’t think that lines up very well with what this site is trying to do.
I’d recommend writing up the relevant concepts in Less Wrong style, with original names (or the standard names if applicable), but citing TV Tropes as appropriate.
Which ones were you thinking of as being relevant? I’d be happy to write them up with better or the same names.
Most of the Logic Tropes index could find a home rewritten as articles or on the wiki, as would about half the Intelligence Tropes. “TV Genius” strikes me as a particularly good candidate, if we don’t already cover the idea in some form (which is more than possible).
There’s also a large set of tropes that would make good resources for an article, but which would require a very different treatment to flourish here; “And Man Grew Proud” comes to mind.
I turned Sound Valid True from TVtropes into Sound logic and Valid logic on the wiki here. More may come later.
Strikes me like an idea that would encourage people to use that jargon by ‘officially’ incorporating it over here. Not a good idea...
That’s the main thing I was worried about. If it occurred to you too, there’s probably good reason to worry. I won’t do it. EDIT: I have made a couple wiki articles inspired by TVtropes, but not the ones that are overused on here.