It has always appalled me that really bright scientists almost all work in the most competitive fields, the ones in which they are making the least difference. In other words, if they were hit by a truck, the same discovery would be made by somebody else about 10 minutes later.
It’s not really surprising, though, is it? Brilliant people want to have other brilliant people as their colleagues.
(In fact, one mathematician of my acquaintance said that he once dabbled in circuit design, but when his first paper in the field was received as a major achievement, he left it immediately, concluding that if he could make such a large contribution so easily, the field must be unworthy of him.)
Edited to amplify: I have never seen the term previous to this thread. Google doesn’t turn up much beyond the quoted quip. Is ironic sincerity when you pretend to pretend not to believe what you’re saying and then everyone pretends to pretend you didn’t believe it so that no-one need be put to the trouble of thinking about it and deciding whether it actually made sense or not? Or not?
I have never seen the term previous to this thread.
It is two terms. Just ‘sincerity’ that happens to also be ironic. Or perhaps irony that just so happens to be expressed through sincere. It’s like saying something ‘tongue in cheek’ but when the point you are making is something you clearly really mean it even though you know it may be surprising to the audience at first glance.
I don’t see how this reveals his motive at all. He could easily be a person motivated to make the best contributions to science as he can, for entirely altruistic reasons. His reasoning was that he could make better contributions elsewhere, and it’s entirely plausible for him to have left the field for ultimately altruistic, purely non-selfish reasons.
And what is it about selfishness exactly that is so bad?
If making a major contribution seemed so easy, and would be harder in some other field, it sure would suggest that his comparative advantage in the easy field is much greater; would not that suggest that he ought to devote his efforts there, since other people have proven relatively capable in the harder fields?
“the quality of being selfish, the condition of habitually putting one’s own interests before those of others”—wiktionary
I can imagine a super giant mega list of situations where that would be bad, even if selfishness is often a good thing. There’s a reason ‘selfishness’ has negative connotations.
I can imagine a super giant mega list of situations where love is a bad thing, too. Like when people kill themselves or others. That doesn’t mean its default connotations should be negative.
The reason “selfishness” has negative connotations are at least partly due to Western culture (with Christian antecedents in “man is fundamentally evil” and “seek not pleasure in this life”). They’re not objectively valid.
Point taken, I just think that it’s normally not good. I also think that maybe, for instance, libertarians and liberals have different conceptions of selfishness that lead the former to go ‘yay, selfishness!’ and the latter to go ‘boo, selfishness!’. Are they talking about the same thing? Are we talking about the same thing? In my personal experience, selfishness has always been demanding half of the pie when fairness is one-third, leading to conflict and bad experiences that could have been avoided. We might just have different conceptions of selfishness.
He may have, for his own reasons, not been happy with the ease with which he achieved something great. His selfishness at this point is not for the fact that he may still be able to contribute to the field and yet he chooses not to but for the fact that he will be happier if he had to work harder on something before achieving greatness. That is his value system. I think his choice is justifiable.
Sure, but it’s also reasonable for him to think that contributing something that was much harder would be that much more of a contribution to his goal (whatever those selfish or non-selfish goals are), after all, something hard for him would be much harder or impossible for someone less capable.
I don’t think his measure of difference is comprehensive:
The higher chance of finding smart collaborators increases chances of increased productivity
A larger chance of making very significant improvement (a highly competitive field is probably much closer to a field-wide, world changing epiphany—while in a less competitive field, much time must be wasted laying down the groundwork)
A longer productive life-span (much likelier to find smart assistants/students to teach at maximum ability all life long)
A higher utility to society—the field is likely competitive because of large public attention, which in turns signals large groups of people funding research, in turn showing that smaller improvements are considered much more valuable than in other fields
A wider selection of interesting work. It’s much more likely that relatively minor or mundante results/problems in the competitive field are going to be immediately useful/used
--Aubrey de Grey
It’s not really surprising, though, is it? Brilliant people want to have other brilliant people as their colleagues.
(In fact, one mathematician of my acquaintance said that he once dabbled in circuit design, but when his first paper in the field was received as a major achievement, he left it immediately, concluding that if he could make such a large contribution so easily, the field must be unworthy of him.)
How utterly selfish of him.
My intuition marked this comment’s intent as more humorous than serious- is my calibration off?
I read ironic sincerity.
Yup.
“Ironic sincerity”?
Edited to amplify: I have never seen the term previous to this thread. Google doesn’t turn up much beyond the quoted quip. Is ironic sincerity when you pretend to pretend not to believe what you’re saying and then everyone pretends to pretend you didn’t believe it so that no-one need be put to the trouble of thinking about it and deciding whether it actually made sense or not? Or not?
How about ha ha only serious?
It means that it was a true statement, but that reading the statement still tickles the “irony” feeling in your brain.
I think part of the reason that this is so is that some people sympathize with this mathematician’s motives. An analogy:
“He donated $1,000 to charity, instead of donating his entire discretionary income.”
“How utterly selfish of him.”
It’s true that it’s selfish, but it’s a lot less selfish than what most people do, so it feels ironic and sarcastic that we are calling him selfish.
It is two terms. Just ‘sincerity’ that happens to also be ironic. Or perhaps irony that just so happens to be expressed through sincere. It’s like saying something ‘tongue in cheek’ but when the point you are making is something you clearly really mean it even though you know it may be surprising to the audience at first glance.
I don’t see how this reveals his motive at all. He could easily be a person motivated to make the best contributions to science as he can, for entirely altruistic reasons. His reasoning was that he could make better contributions elsewhere, and it’s entirely plausible for him to have left the field for ultimately altruistic, purely non-selfish reasons.
And what is it about selfishness exactly that is so bad?
If making a major contribution seemed so easy, and would be harder in some other field, it sure would suggest that his comparative advantage in the easy field is much greater; would not that suggest that he ought to devote his efforts there, since other people have proven relatively capable in the harder fields?
“And what is it about selfishness exactly that is so bad?”
It’s fine and dandy in me, but I tend to discourage it in other people. I find that I get what I want faster that way.
Now give me some cash.
http://lesswrong.com/lw/1hh/rationality_quotes_november_2009/1ai9
“the quality of being selfish, the condition of habitually putting one’s own interests before those of others”—wiktionary
I can imagine a super giant mega list of situations where that would be bad, even if selfishness is often a good thing. There’s a reason ‘selfishness’ has negative connotations.
I can imagine a super giant mega list of situations where love is a bad thing, too. Like when people kill themselves or others. That doesn’t mean its default connotations should be negative.
The reason “selfishness” has negative connotations are at least partly due to Western culture (with Christian antecedents in “man is fundamentally evil” and “seek not pleasure in this life”). They’re not objectively valid.
Point taken, I just think that it’s normally not good. I also think that maybe, for instance, libertarians and liberals have different conceptions of selfishness that lead the former to go ‘yay, selfishness!’ and the latter to go ‘boo, selfishness!’. Are they talking about the same thing? Are we talking about the same thing? In my personal experience, selfishness has always been demanding half of the pie when fairness is one-third, leading to conflict and bad experiences that could have been avoided. We might just have different conceptions of selfishness.
He may have, for his own reasons, not been happy with the ease with which he achieved something great. His selfishness at this point is not for the fact that he may still be able to contribute to the field and yet he chooses not to but for the fact that he will be happier if he had to work harder on something before achieving greatness. That is his value system. I think his choice is justifiable.
Sure, but it’s also reasonable for him to think that contributing something that was much harder would be that much more of a contribution to his goal (whatever those selfish or non-selfish goals are), after all, something hard for him would be much harder or impossible for someone less capable.
No, just appalling.
Maybe was just a one-hit wonder who ran out of ideas. :P
This is interesting. Which mathematician? Which paper? Could you at least say what field or what advance?
“I sent the club a wire stating, PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON’T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER.”
Groucho Marx
I don’t think his measure of difference is comprehensive:
The higher chance of finding smart collaborators increases chances of increased productivity
A larger chance of making very significant improvement (a highly competitive field is probably much closer to a field-wide, world changing epiphany—while in a less competitive field, much time must be wasted laying down the groundwork)
A longer productive life-span (much likelier to find smart assistants/students to teach at maximum ability all life long)
A higher utility to society—the field is likely competitive because of large public attention, which in turns signals large groups of people funding research, in turn showing that smaller improvements are considered much more valuable than in other fields
A wider selection of interesting work. It’s much more likely that relatively minor or mundante results/problems in the competitive field are going to be immediately useful/used
Where is this from, http://vimeo.com/7396024 ?
I don’t remember exactly, but I think it was from a conference where he was speaking with Eliezer on a panel or Q&A, so that might be it.