Folk ’round these parts are smart enough not to get dragged down in Blue versus Green political debate, most of the time. But there is much speculation about policy that is even more insane than Blue versus Green even if it does happen to be more sophisticated and subtle. (Mauve versus lilac is more sophisticated than blue versus green.) For example, it is a strong attractor in insanityspace for people to hear about el singularidad and say “Well obviously this means we should kill everyone in the world except the FAI team because that’s what utilitarianism says, I can’t believe you people are advocating such extreme measures, that is sick and I have contempt for you, and if you’re not advocating such extreme measures then you must be inconsistent and not actually believe anything you say! DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA!”. Or some of the responses to multifoliaterose’s infinite lab universes post. I’m under the impression that the Buddhists talk about this kind of obsession with drama in the context of Manjushri’s sword. Anyway, policy debate makes people stupid, but instead of going up a few meta levels and dealing with that stupidity directly, they choose to make the context of their stupidity a dramatic and emotionally charged one. I have no aim in complaining about this besides maybe highlighting the behavior such that people can realize if they’re starting to slip into it.
It’s funny how people always complain about death, but not about inferential distance. Inferential distance is a much blacker plague upon the world than death, and the technology to eliminate it is probably about as difficult to engineer as strong anti-aging tech. Technologies that improve communication are game-breaking technologies. E.g. language, writing, printing press, the internet, and the mind-blowing stuff you learn about once you’re of high enough rank in the Bayesian Conspiracy.
You’re clearly a smart guy and have interesting things to say, but your posts give off a strong crank vibe. I’ve noticed this in your comments before, so I don’t think it’s an isolated issue. Perhaps this doesn’t show up in your social interactions elsewhere so it’s not a serious issue for you, but if it does I think it would be well worth your while to pay attention to.
Here’s some speculations about what it is that sends off my crank alert:
You use a lot of references/vocabulary that will be opaque to lots of people
Thank you for your helpful response. It would take a long time to explain the psychology involved on my part, but I do indeed have a fairly thorough understanding of the social psychology involved on the part of others. Sometimes I legitimately expect persons to understand what I am saying and am surprised when they do not, but most often I do not anticipate that folk will understand what I am saying and am unsurprised when they do not. I often comment anyway for three reasons. First, because it would be prohibitively motivationally expensive for me to fully explain each point, and yet I figure there’s some non-negligible chance that someone will find something I say to be interesting despite the lack of clarity. Second, because I can use the little bit of motivation I get from the thought of someone potentially getting some insight from something I say, as inspiration to write some of my thoughts down, which I usually find very psychologically taxing. Third, because of some sort of unvirtuous passive-aggression or frustration caused by people being uncharitable in interpreting me, and thus a desire to defect in communication as repayment. The latter comes from a sort of contempt, ’cuz I’ve been working on my rationalist skillz for a while now as a sort of full-time endeavor and I can see many ways in which Less Wrong is deficient. I am completely aware that such contempt—like all contempt—is useless and possibly inaccurate in many ways. I might start cutting back on my Less Wrong commenting soon. I have an alternative account where I make only clear and high quality comments, I might as well just use that one only. Again, thanks for taking the time to give feedback.
Third, because of some sort of unvirtuous passive-aggression or frustration caused by people being uncharitable in interpreting me, and thus a desire to defect in communication as repayment.
You know this causes them to defect in turn by actively not-trying to understand you, right?
Folk ’round these parts are smart enough not to get dragged down in Blue versus Green political debate, most of the time. But there is much speculation about policy that is even more insane than Blue versus Green even if it does happen to be more sophisticated and subtle. (Mauve versus lilac is more sophisticated than blue versus green.) For example, it is a strong attractor in insanityspace for people to hear about el singularidad and say “Well obviously this means we should kill everyone in the world except the FAI team because that’s what utilitarianism says, I can’t believe you people are advocating such extreme measures, that is sick and I have contempt for you, and if you’re not advocating such extreme measures then you must be inconsistent and not actually believe anything you say! DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA!”. Or some of the responses to multifoliaterose’s infinite lab universes post. I’m under the impression that the Buddhists talk about this kind of obsession with drama in the context of Manjushri’s sword. Anyway, policy debate makes people stupid, but instead of going up a few meta levels and dealing with that stupidity directly, they choose to make the context of their stupidity a dramatic and emotionally charged one. I have no aim in complaining about this besides maybe highlighting the behavior such that people can realize if they’re starting to slip into it.
It’s funny how people always complain about death, but not about inferential distance. Inferential distance is a much blacker plague upon the world than death, and the technology to eliminate it is probably about as difficult to engineer as strong anti-aging tech. Technologies that improve communication are game-breaking technologies. E.g. language, writing, printing press, the internet, and the mind-blowing stuff you learn about once you’re of high enough rank in the Bayesian Conspiracy.
You’re clearly a smart guy and have interesting things to say, but your posts give off a strong crank vibe. I’ve noticed this in your comments before, so I don’t think it’s an isolated issue. Perhaps this doesn’t show up in your social interactions elsewhere so it’s not a serious issue for you, but if it does I think it would be well worth your while to pay attention to.
Here’s some speculations about what it is that sends off my crank alert:
You use a lot of references/vocabulary that will be opaque to lots of people
You jump between points rapidly
Thank you for your helpful response. It would take a long time to explain the psychology involved on my part, but I do indeed have a fairly thorough understanding of the social psychology involved on the part of others. Sometimes I legitimately expect persons to understand what I am saying and am surprised when they do not, but most often I do not anticipate that folk will understand what I am saying and am unsurprised when they do not. I often comment anyway for three reasons. First, because it would be prohibitively motivationally expensive for me to fully explain each point, and yet I figure there’s some non-negligible chance that someone will find something I say to be interesting despite the lack of clarity. Second, because I can use the little bit of motivation I get from the thought of someone potentially getting some insight from something I say, as inspiration to write some of my thoughts down, which I usually find very psychologically taxing. Third, because of some sort of unvirtuous passive-aggression or frustration caused by people being uncharitable in interpreting me, and thus a desire to defect in communication as repayment. The latter comes from a sort of contempt, ’cuz I’ve been working on my rationalist skillz for a while now as a sort of full-time endeavor and I can see many ways in which Less Wrong is deficient. I am completely aware that such contempt—like all contempt—is useless and possibly inaccurate in many ways. I might start cutting back on my Less Wrong commenting soon. I have an alternative account where I make only clear and high quality comments, I might as well just use that one only. Again, thanks for taking the time to give feedback.
I’d be very interested in seeing posts on specifics on how LW is deficient/could improve.
You know this causes them to defect in turn by actively not-trying to understand you, right?
Of course. “I do indeed have a fairly thorough understanding of the social psychology involved on the part of others.”
Interesting. Good context to have.
I would expect such contempt to be actively harmful to you (in that people will like you and listen to you less).
I hope I did not come off as adversarial.