A user who’s judgement I deeply admire has told me off site that my posts are harmful to the community and it is better that I stop posting. I will respect his opinion and discontinue posting until further notice.
Please down vote this post if I make responses after it.
Thanks for all the fun and cool conversation! It was a great ride while it lasted, I will try to live up to the spirit of LW in the future.
First Checkpoint
I delayed the break from LW because of some of the feedback to this post as well as plain force of habit. I did some posts I considered clearly valuable to the community. As of August 8th, its been exactly a month since my last entry, I don’t think much has changed so far so I’m going to stick it out until the next check point which will be at the 3 month mark.
Second Checkpoint
The breaks I took where somewhat useful. Currently resuming normal participation.
You should note this on a calendar or something: two months from now you should re-evaluate your position. It seems to me like there’s a chance you’ll change to the point you’re net positive; re-evaluation is cheap; that small chance should be allowed for, not discarded.
I do agree with gwern that your recent critical lamentations have been a negative contribution. Particularly because I find it is too easy to be influenced towards cynicism. However your recent dissatisfaction aside your contributions in general are fine, making you a valuable community member. I never see the name “Konkvistador” and think “Oh damn, that moron is commenting again”, which puts you ahead of rather a lot of people and almost constitutes high praise!
I can perhaps empathise with becoming disgruntled with intellectual standards on lesswrong. People are stupid and the world is mad—including most people here and everywhere else I have interacted with humans. I recently took a whole 30 days off, getting my score down to ‘0’, weakening the addiction and also relieving a lot of frustration. I enjoy lesswrong much more after doing that. Hopefully you decide to return some time in the future as well.
I tend to agree with Shokwave’s replay. Lesswrong users not learning a bunch of history is not a big deal. The subject is fairly boring. Someone else can learn it.
Lesswrong isn’t supposed to be a site where all users must learn arbitrary amounts of information about arbitrary subjects. Most people have better things to do.
I find your style of commenting both fun to read and interesting. I think your posts are valuable even if they’re more “thinking out loud” than “I have studied ALL THE LITERATURE”. As a community I think we can and SHOULD be able to talk about things in ways that don’t involve 50 citations at the bottom of the page, even though I think those posts are valuable. I don’t know who you’re scaring away with your amount of commenting, but I don’t miss them.
It’s somewhat plausible that 20 comments a day may be too much (in someone’s perception), or that it’s better to develop certain kinds of posts more carefully, maybe even to avoid certain topics (that would shift the focus of conversations on LW in an undesirable direction), but it’s not a case for not posting at all.
(That is, the questions of whether Konkvistador’s posts are slightly harmful for the community (in what specific way) and whether the best intervention in response to that hypothetical is to discontinue posting entirely don’t seem to me clearly resolved, and low rate of posting seems like a better alternative for the time being, absent other considerations.)
whether Konkvistador’s posts are slightly harmful for the community
It is ridiculous to argue that an eloquent and prolific poster who actually seems to have read the motherfucking sequences and doesn’t get tired of trying help new people access them (a rare trait these days) is causing harm.
Even if that was so for every single thing he wrote, and note that when Lukeprog cites against his argument that productivity and openness to outside ideas on LW is lower than it should be, the bundle includes many of Konkvistador’s posts as examples of openness and productivity! Imagine that!
At the very least his excellenttaste in outside links that he regularly shares with the community make him definitely a signal not a noise man.
But please lets pile on him. I bet soon someone will bring up how he “violated the mindkilling” taboo or even acusse him of getting “minkilled”.
Your rhetoric is for dismissing the question as ridiculous. I suggest actually considering the question, and expect that the answer accepted by Konkvistador is wrong on both levels (their contributions don’t seem harmful on net, there are multiple meanings of “harmful” that should be addressed separately with different interventions, and stopping participation entirely doesn’t seem to be the best response to the hypothetical of their contributions being harmful in some of these senses).
(For example, it’s likely that for most posters, there is some aspect of their participation that is harmful, and the appropriate response is to figure out what that aspect is and fix it. So it’s useful to consider these questions.)
My rhetoric is what it is, I’m pissed. Feel free to make an argument for why Konkvistador’s output is on net “harmful”, I will try to consider it properly.
Though naturally we are left at a disadvantage here, since we will likely only ever hear one side of the story. The man himself has probably already scrambled his password or something and won’t be putting up a defence.
My rhetoric is what it is, I’m pissed. Feel free to make an argument for why Konkvistador’s output is on net “harmful”, I will try to consider it properly.
This is not my argument, please re-read the discussion when you calm down.
I’m not sure why Gwern’s and Nesov’s replies are being downvoted to the point that they are hidden. Surely there is disagreement, but I see the quality of their posts as high. I urge voters to vote on the quality of the posts, not whether you agree/disagree with them.
But even if I’m wrong in this case, it seems obvious we have a split community on this.
I’m better the subconscious parts of the brains of the “Top Poster” Clique are running their little hamster wheels trying to find clever reasons why to associate with the high status gwern rather than low status absent underdog.
I am on a drug. It’s called Charlie Sheen. It’s not available because if you try it you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body.
Quitting doesn’t advance your goals either. If your goal isn’t posturing for your own emotional satisfaction, stop doing posturing and do some real work. Do the impossible and try to actually convince the community that gwern’s advice was bad.
That isn’t a job for CharlieSheen. Though I think if you look past the rude language you will find the arguments sound. But yes I was in the wrong here on tone.
2nd edit Haters gonna hate. I’d love to hear some actual arguments though clique men. So predictable on LW someone bitches about karma and you insta up vote him and downvote the opponent. In a prisoners dilemma with the options of defect or cooperate, LWers always pick CONTRARIAN.
I originally misread him. He apparently dosen’t think K’s been on net “hurting” the community. I’ve edited my posts to reflect this. So apologies to Nesov.
I don’t downvote on request (for reasons I have occasionally expressed I consider that self control strategy to be poor).
Go edit C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts or /etc/hosts to point lesswrong to 127.0.0.1. Works for me. In fact, whenever I get the slightest impulse to go look at lesswrong I deliberately and actively type in lesswrong.com, anticipating somewhat eagerly the Server Not Found message and giving myself a mental reward. This was amazingly effective in achieving extinction) in an excessively reinforced behavioral pattern.
A user who’s judgement I deeply admire has told me off site that my posts are harmful to the community and it is better that I stop posting. I will respect his opinion and discontinue posting until further notice.
Please down vote this post if I make responses after it.
Thanks for all the fun and cool conversation! It was a great ride while it lasted, I will try to live up to the spirit of LW in the future.
First Checkpoint
I delayed the break from LW because of some of the feedback to this post as well as plain force of habit. I did some posts I considered clearly valuable to the community. As of August 8th, its been exactly a month since my last entry, I don’t think much has changed so far so I’m going to stick it out until the next check point which will be at the 3 month mark.
Second Checkpoint
The breaks I took where somewhat useful. Currently resuming normal participation.
You should note this on a calendar or something: two months from now you should re-evaluate your position. It seems to me like there’s a chance you’ll change to the point you’re net positive; re-evaluation is cheap; that small chance should be allowed for, not discarded.
This sounds like a good idea. I will do so.
I’m sorry to see you go.
I do agree with gwern that your recent critical lamentations have been a negative contribution. Particularly because I find it is too easy to be influenced towards cynicism. However your recent dissatisfaction aside your contributions in general are fine, making you a valuable community member. I never see the name “Konkvistador” and think “Oh damn, that moron is commenting again”, which puts you ahead of rather a lot of people and almost constitutes high praise!
I can perhaps empathise with becoming disgruntled with intellectual standards on lesswrong. People are stupid and the world is mad—including most people here and everywhere else I have interacted with humans. I recently took a whole 30 days off, getting my score down to ‘0’, weakening the addiction and also relieving a lot of frustration. I enjoy lesswrong much more after doing that. Hopefully you decide to return some time in the future as well.
Honestly, I think you were too easily mollified by lukeprog—for the reasons I said to him there.
I tend to agree with Shokwave’s replay. Lesswrong users not learning a bunch of history is not a big deal. The subject is fairly boring. Someone else can learn it.
Lesswrong isn’t supposed to be a site where all users must learn arbitrary amounts of information about arbitrary subjects. Most people have better things to do.
I find your style of commenting both fun to read and interesting. I think your posts are valuable even if they’re more “thinking out loud” than “I have studied ALL THE LITERATURE”. As a community I think we can and SHOULD be able to talk about things in ways that don’t involve 50 citations at the bottom of the page, even though I think those posts are valuable. I don’t know who you’re scaring away with your amount of commenting, but I don’t miss them.
Jeez.
You’ve been the top contributor in the past 30 days.
This departure of yours is the most harmful thing you’ve ever done to the community. I wish you’d stay.
This is bloody stupid.
Please don’t go. If someone from my cluster of ideaspace told you that you detracted from the community—they are wrong.
It’s somewhat plausible that 20 comments a day may be too much (in someone’s perception), or that it’s better to develop certain kinds of posts more carefully, maybe even to avoid certain topics (that would shift the focus of conversations on LW in an undesirable direction), but it’s not a case for not posting at all.
(That is, the questions of whether Konkvistador’s posts are slightly harmful for the community (in what specific way) and whether the best intervention in response to that hypothetical is to discontinue posting entirely don’t seem to me clearly resolved, and low rate of posting seems like a better alternative for the time being, absent other considerations.)
It is ridiculous to argue that an eloquent and prolific poster who actually seems to have read the motherfucking sequences and doesn’t get tired of trying help new people access them (a rare trait these days) is causing harm.
Even if that was so for every single thing he wrote, and note that when Lukeprog cites against his argument that productivity and openness to outside ideas on LW is lower than it should be, the bundle includes many of Konkvistador’s posts as examples of openness and productivity! Imagine that!
At the very least his excellent taste in outside links that he regularly shares with the community make him definitely a signal not a noise man.
But please lets pile on him. I bet soon someone will bring up how he “violated the mindkilling” taboo or even acusse him of getting “minkilled”.
Your rhetoric is for dismissing the question as ridiculous. I suggest actually considering the question, and expect that the answer accepted by Konkvistador is wrong on both levels (their contributions don’t seem harmful on net, there are multiple meanings of “harmful” that should be addressed separately with different interventions, and stopping participation entirely doesn’t seem to be the best response to the hypothetical of their contributions being harmful in some of these senses).
(For example, it’s likely that for most posters, there is some aspect of their participation that is harmful, and the appropriate response is to figure out what that aspect is and fix it. So it’s useful to consider these questions.)
My rhetoric is what it is, I’m pissed. Feel free to make an argument for why Konkvistador’s output is on net “harmful”, I will try to consider it properly.
Though naturally we are left at a disadvantage here, since we will likely only ever hear one side of the story. The man himself has probably already scrambled his password or something and won’t be putting up a defence.
This is not my argument, please re-read the discussion when you calm down.
I generally love his 20 comments a day.
Slowing down is called-for, stopping is not. You’re a valued member of the community.
I’m not sure why Gwern’s and Nesov’s replies are being downvoted to the point that they are hidden. Surely there is disagreement, but I see the quality of their posts as high. I urge voters to vote on the quality of the posts, not whether you agree/disagree with them.
But even if I’m wrong in this case, it seems obvious we have a split community on this.
I’m better the subconscious parts of the brains of the “Top Poster” Clique are running their little hamster wheels trying to find clever reasons why to associate with the high status gwern rather than low status absent underdog.
Two points:
I don’t know what’s going on inside your head, but this looks like motivated cognition from the outside.
Regardless of why you are saying this, it doesn’t help change the community norm in the direct that you seem to want.
I am on a drug. It’s called Charlie Sheen. It’s not available because if you try it you will die. Your face will melt off and your children will weep over your exploded body.
I’m on a quest.
I’m not sure there is any hope for this community. But ok you seem reasonable, I’ll quit and let the conformist contrarian wolves tear K’s corpse.
Quitting doesn’t advance your goals either. If your goal isn’t posturing for your own emotional satisfaction, stop doing posturing and do some real work. Do the impossible and try to actually convince the community that gwern’s advice was bad.
That isn’t a job for CharlieSheen. Though I think if you look past the rude language you will find the arguments sound. But yes I was in the wrong here on tone.
Gwern is wrong. Its that simple.
edit Corrected typo.
2nd edit Haters gonna hate. I’d love to hear some actual arguments though clique men. So predictable on LW someone bitches about karma and you insta up vote him and downvote the opponent. In a prisoners dilemma with the options of defect or cooperate, LWers always pick CONTRARIAN.
Gwern is being flippant, but what’s wrong with Nesov’s statements.
Yeah I guess I can agree.
I originally misread him. He apparently dosen’t think K’s been on net “hurting” the community. I’ve edited my posts to reflect this. So apologies to Nesov.
Ok this didn’t work. Please down vote parent and this comment to punish me for posting.
Edit: Ok who up voted this. Not funny. :/
I don’t downvote on request (for reasons I have occasionally expressed I consider that self control strategy to be poor).
Go edit C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts or /etc/hosts to point lesswrong to 127.0.0.1. Works for me. In fact, whenever I get the slightest impulse to go look at lesswrong I deliberately and actively type in lesswrong.com, anticipating somewhat eagerly the Server Not Found message and giving myself a mental reward. This was amazingly effective in achieving extinction) in an excessively reinforced behavioral pattern.
This is useful advice. Thank you.
Konkvistador,
For some of us, your behavior looks like evaporative cooling from the inside. For those of us who don’t want cooling, this is not a good thing.
But I respect you too much to upvote something you don’t want upvoted.
Not funny. :/
In my opinion this kind of undefensive humility is something to be celebrated. Good job, Konk!