Nice distinction! this feels connected to simulacra. people who try to safeguard their honor tend to do that even privately, at least to an extent. that no one sees them and no one will know isn’t a good reason to do something they consider dishonorable. they don’t just try to seem honorable, they try to be honorable. they’re on level 1.
People who safeguard their PR are on level 2 (or higher). They pretend to be honorable, or keep a good name, but as Duncan said, are focused on the outcome “People think good of me” and not on the process of actually being honorable.
This also seems useful in spotting maze cultures and non maze cultures.
I thought that as I was reading this, but came to different conclusions. I see a focus on honour and reputation as a level 3 concern, while a focus on PR is a level 4 one.
There isn’t really a level 1; caring what other people think is exactly what level 1 is not about. Level 2 would involve some sort of lying to level-1 people, but since there isn’t really a level 1 in this context, there isn’t really a level 2 either.
Although I think PR vs honor fits into level 3⁄4 best, it still doesn’t seem like quite a perfect fit to simulacra in general. PR is a clean fit to simulacrum 4, but honor doesn’t quite fit right in the simulacrum framework; it has elements of both “actually doing the thing” (i.e. level 1) and “making sure that other people know you’re actually doing the thing” (i.e. level 3).
Yeah, i guess what i thought of is the type of honor that you adhere to for yourself, even if no one else knows. but that’s not exactly what the post talks about.
Nice distinction! this feels connected to simulacra. people who try to safeguard their honor tend to do that even privately, at least to an extent. that no one sees them and no one will know isn’t a good reason to do something they consider dishonorable. they don’t just try to seem honorable, they try to be honorable. they’re on level 1.
People who safeguard their PR are on level 2 (or higher). They pretend to be honorable, or keep a good name, but as Duncan said, are focused on the outcome “People think good of me” and not on the process of actually being honorable.
This also seems useful in spotting maze cultures and non maze cultures.
I thought that as I was reading this, but came to different conclusions. I see a focus on honour and reputation as a level 3 concern, while a focus on PR is a level 4 one.
Interesting. What would the level 2 and level 1 of that then?
There isn’t really a level 1; caring what other people think is exactly what level 1 is not about. Level 2 would involve some sort of lying to level-1 people, but since there isn’t really a level 1 in this context, there isn’t really a level 2 either.
Although I think PR vs honor fits into level 3⁄4 best, it still doesn’t seem like quite a perfect fit to simulacra in general. PR is a clean fit to simulacrum 4, but honor doesn’t quite fit right in the simulacrum framework; it has elements of both “actually doing the thing” (i.e. level 1) and “making sure that other people know you’re actually doing the thing” (i.e. level 3).
Yeah, i guess what i thought of is the type of honor that you adhere to for yourself, even if no one else knows. but that’s not exactly what the post talks about.
That sort of honour is probably level 1.
Maybe that’s integrity, or something like that.