Yes, it seems to be a symptom of an inability to emotionally regulate.
I just felt kind of bad when I wrote this because I experienced some social rejection. Afterward, I did an internal double crux type thing. That was actually pretty difficult because I was constantly being pushed in the direction of procrastinating. A part of me said the following:
Having people like you can have enormous benefits. Having people not like you can have enormous downsides. Therefore, I am the algorithm in your brain that sees social rejection as something strongly negative. Social rejection means that a person doesn’t like you enough or doesn’t think you are qualified enough, not important enough, etc. to be granted the thing you requested.
So that part of me wants me to avoid social rejection. There is the failure mode of then just avoiding all social interactions. I have been falling into that failure mode for most of my life. The actual thing that this algorithm tries to accomplish is to make you optimize for making people like you. To avoid the isolationist failure mode you got another algorithm that makes you feel lonely.
As I was lending my voice and mental abilities to that part of me[1], and as I was speaking those words I felt an enormously positive feeling pulsing through my body. It was like the algorithm telling me “Yes you understood me. Great job!” Afterwards, I felt not bad at all anymore. Like literally not bad at all. Predictably the pressure to procrastinate went away too. This happened multiple times to me in the last couple of weeks. It feels like I am finally managing to figure out how to handle my emotions.
I find this truly incredible. When you actually understand your emotions it actually makes you feel really good apparently. I expect if I keep doing this my brain will just automatically update itself in the correct direction. I am actually kind of looking forward to feeling bad again, such that I can analyze why and feel really good already.
Maybe my brain got really confused before and sort of erroneously thought that entertainment is actually figuring out my feelings.[2] That would make sense because there where no video games, TV, or pornography in the ancestral environment.
I say that I did perform an internal double crux, but my technique might be significantly different from an internal double crux. I kind of made up this technique when I was doing a guided double crux for the first time. My guide at some point when I asked them if I was doing it correctly said “We have been off-script for a while now.” But this seems to work very well. Maybe it is better than the original method.
I find this truly incredible. When you actually understand your emotions it actually makes you feel really good apparently.
It would make some sense, from a design perspective, if emotions that indicated the presence of some problem would stick around while you didn’t understand the problem, and would evaporate once you understood it and knew for certain what you would do about it. This would fit with others’ writings about felt-sense introspection, also known as Gendlin’s Focusing.
Yes. It seems so ridiculous that I literally have been feeling this for the first time, 2 months ago or so. I wish somebody had told me this sooner. I basically started to understand this because I talked a bunch about this with @plex.
The thing is that I have not read about IDC. And the other mind stuff. I am not sure if I am doing the thing that other people described. What I am doing is mainly based on doing an IDC once with you, and from things I have been figuring out by reflecting when feeling bad.
Right, it can be way easier to learn it live. My guess is you’re doing something quite IDC flavoured, but mixed with some other models of mind which IDC does not make explicit. Specific mind algorithms are useful, but exploring based on them and finding things which fit you is often best.
Is “mind algorithms” a known concept? I definitely have a concept like this in my head that matches this name. I have never seen anybody else talk about it though. Also each time I tell somebody about this concept they don’t seem to get it. They tend to dismiss it as trivial and obvious. Probably because they have a model in their mind that fits the name “mind algorithm”. But I expect the concept in my head to be much more powerful. I expect that I can think of certain thoughts that are inaccessible to them because their model is less powerful.
I would ask things like to what extent is it true that you can run arbitrary algorithms on your bain? Certainly, there are limits but I am not sure where they are. E.g. it is definitely possible to temporarily become a different person, by creating a separate personality. And that personality can be very different. E.g. it could not get upset at something that you get normally upset by.
It should not be too surprising that this is possible. It is normal to behave differently depending on who you talk to. I am just talking about a much stronger version of this, where you have more explicit control.
In my experience, you can also create an algorithm that arbitrarily triggers the reward circuitry in your brain. E.g. I can make it such that each time I tap on the top of my laptop it feels really good. I.e. I am creating a new algorithm that watches for an event and then triggers some rewards circuitry.
It also shouldn’t be surprising that this is possible. Why do I feel good when I get a good weapon drop in a video game? That seems to be learned too. The thing I just described is likely doing a similar thing, only that there you don’t rely on some subconscious process to set the reward trigger. Instead, you explicitly construct it. When you look at the reward trigger it might be impossible to tell, whether it was created by some subconscious process or explicitly.
I do it in a very convoluted way. Basically, I have created a subagent in my mind that somehow has access to this aspect, and then I can tell the subagent to make me feel good when I tap the laptop. If I just try to make it feel good myself to tap the laptop then it does not work. It works best with discrete events that give you feedback like tapping. Throwing something in the trash does not work as easily. I actually have used this technique almost never, which seems strange, because it seems very powerful.
WHEN I feel bad/uneasy at any point, THEN find the part of my mind that’s complaining, and lend it my voice & mental-space.
I have previously tried to install a “somatic trigger” for whenever I feel bad (ie “when I feel bad, close my eyes and fold my hands together in front of me in a calm motion”), but it failed to take bc there weren’t clear-enough cues. The point of a somatic trigger in the first place is to install them in specific contexts such that I have clearer cues for whatever habits I may wish to write into those contexts.
I recommend to reflect in writing. I normally open up a blank document on my laptop and type away. I like to write full-text. I.e. full sentences just like I write now, instead of bullet points. I think it makes me smarter.
You want to speak for that part of you and think about why it makes sense to feel that way. Don’t be judgemental. Forget about the things you want, and how inconvenient it might be to feel this way. It can be useful to give the part you are speaking for a name. This should be a positive-sounding, descriptive name. It should be endorsed by the part you are speaking for. In the above example, I did not give out a name, but if I had it might have been something like “Rejection Protector”, as the system tries to protect me from getting rejected.
You also want to constantly check if what you are saying is actually endorsed by the part of you for which you are trying to speak. If you feel really good and it feels like “a knot unties within you” then that means that you are endorsed by the part you are speaking for.
I actually just stopped taking antidepressants 2 weeks ago, and so far I have not felt the need to start again, and I think this has been in part to this technique and some other related realizations (see the first edit). Though it is too early to tell if this is just a random coincidence I think. Maybe I will regress.
Yes, it seems to be a symptom of an inability to emotionally regulate.
I just felt kind of bad when I wrote this because I experienced some social rejection. Afterward, I did an internal double crux type thing. That was actually pretty difficult because I was constantly being pushed in the direction of procrastinating. A part of me said the following:
So that part of me wants me to avoid social rejection. There is the failure mode of then just avoiding all social interactions. I have been falling into that failure mode for most of my life. The actual thing that this algorithm tries to accomplish is to make you optimize for making people like you. To avoid the isolationist failure mode you got another algorithm that makes you feel lonely.
As I was lending my voice and mental abilities to that part of me[1], and as I was speaking those words I felt an enormously positive feeling pulsing through my body. It was like the algorithm telling me “Yes you understood me. Great job!” Afterwards, I felt not bad at all anymore. Like literally not bad at all. Predictably the pressure to procrastinate went away too. This happened multiple times to me in the last couple of weeks. It feels like I am finally managing to figure out how to handle my emotions.
I find this truly incredible. When you actually understand your emotions it actually makes you feel really good apparently. I expect if I keep doing this my brain will just automatically update itself in the correct direction. I am actually kind of looking forward to feeling bad again, such that I can analyze why and feel really good already.
Maybe my brain got really confused before and sort of erroneously thought that entertainment is actually figuring out my feelings.[2] That would make sense because there where no video games, TV, or pornography in the ancestral environment.
I say that I did perform an internal double crux, but my technique might be significantly different from an internal double crux. I kind of made up this technique when I was doing a guided double crux for the first time. My guide at some point when I asked them if I was doing it correctly said “We have been off-script for a while now.” But this seems to work very well. Maybe it is better than the original method.
You know not really because we are probably just talking about adaptation executors but I think you get what I mean.
It would make some sense, from a design perspective, if emotions that indicated the presence of some problem would stick around while you didn’t understand the problem, and would evaporate once you understood it and knew for certain what you would do about it. This would fit with others’ writings about felt-sense introspection, also known as Gendlin’s Focusing.
Yes. It seems so ridiculous that I literally have been feeling this for the first time, 2 months ago or so. I wish somebody had told me this sooner. I basically started to understand this because I talked a bunch about this with @plex.
Nice, glad you’re getting value out of IDC and other mind stuff :)
Do you think an annotated reading list of mind stuff be worth putting together?
I’m guessing IDC is short for internally-directed cognition.
Internal Double Crux, a cfar technique.
It is short for internal double crux.
The thing is that I have not read about IDC. And the other mind stuff. I am not sure if I am doing the thing that other people described. What I am doing is mainly based on doing an IDC once with you, and from things I have been figuring out by reflecting when feeling bad.
Right, it can be way easier to learn it live. My guess is you’re doing something quite IDC flavoured, but mixed with some other models of mind which IDC does not make explicit. Specific mind algorithms are useful, but exploring based on them and finding things which fit you is often best.
Is “mind algorithms” a known concept? I definitely have a concept like this in my head that matches this name. I have never seen anybody else talk about it though. Also each time I tell somebody about this concept they don’t seem to get it. They tend to dismiss it as trivial and obvious. Probably because they have a model in their mind that fits the name “mind algorithm”. But I expect the concept in my head to be much more powerful. I expect that I can think of certain thoughts that are inaccessible to them because their model is less powerful.
I would ask things like to what extent is it true that you can run arbitrary algorithms on your bain? Certainly, there are limits but I am not sure where they are. E.g. it is definitely possible to temporarily become a different person, by creating a separate personality. And that personality can be very different. E.g. it could not get upset at something that you get normally upset by.
It should not be too surprising that this is possible. It is normal to behave differently depending on who you talk to. I am just talking about a much stronger version of this, where you have more explicit control.
In my experience, you can also create an algorithm that arbitrarily triggers the reward circuitry in your brain. E.g. I can make it such that each time I tap on the top of my laptop it feels really good. I.e. I am creating a new algorithm that watches for an event and then triggers some rewards circuitry.
It also shouldn’t be surprising that this is possible. Why do I feel good when I get a good weapon drop in a video game? That seems to be learned too. The thing I just described is likely doing a similar thing, only that there you don’t rely on some subconscious process to set the reward trigger. Instead, you explicitly construct it. When you look at the reward trigger it might be impossible to tell, whether it was created by some subconscious process or explicitly.
I think not super broadly known, but many cfar techniques fit into the category so it’s around to some extent.
And yeah, brains are pretty programmable.
I can’t do that.
I do it in a very convoluted way. Basically, I have created a subagent in my mind that somehow has access to this aspect, and then I can tell the subagent to make me feel good when I tap the laptop. If I just try to make it feel good myself to tap the laptop then it does not work. It works best with discrete events that give you feedback like tapping. Throwing something in the trash does not work as easily. I actually have used this technique almost never, which seems strange, because it seems very powerful.
Oi! This was potentially usefwl for me to read.
WHEN I feel bad/uneasy at any point,
THEN find the part of my mind that’s complaining, and lend it my voice & mental-space.
I have previously tried to install a “somatic trigger” for whenever I feel bad (ie “when I feel bad, close my eyes and fold my hands together in front of me in a calm motion”), but it failed to take bc there weren’t clear-enough cues. The point of a somatic trigger in the first place is to install them in specific contexts such that I have clearer cues for whatever habits I may wish to write into those contexts.
I recommend to reflect in writing. I normally open up a blank document on my laptop and type away. I like to write full-text. I.e. full sentences just like I write now, instead of bullet points. I think it makes me smarter.
You want to speak for that part of you and think about why it makes sense to feel that way. Don’t be judgemental. Forget about the things you want, and how inconvenient it might be to feel this way. It can be useful to give the part you are speaking for a name. This should be a positive-sounding, descriptive name. It should be endorsed by the part you are speaking for. In the above example, I did not give out a name, but if I had it might have been something like “Rejection Protector”, as the system tries to protect me from getting rejected.
You also want to constantly check if what you are saying is actually endorsed by the part of you for which you are trying to speak. If you feel really good and it feels like “a knot unties within you” then that means that you are endorsed by the part you are speaking for.
I actually just stopped taking antidepressants 2 weeks ago, and so far I have not felt the need to start again, and I think this has been in part to this technique and some other related realizations (see the first edit). Though it is too early to tell if this is just a random coincidence I think. Maybe I will regress.