The only acquaintance I’ve had who was obviously non-empathic appeared to be quite amused by harming people, and he’d talk coldly about how it would be more convenient for him if his parents were dead. If I were a non-empathic person who’d chosen a strategy of following the rules to blend into society, I would find it very inconvenient for people to think I was anything like him, and would therefore attempt to emulate empathy under most conditions. Who would want to cooperate with me in a mutually profitable endeavor if they thought I was the kind of person who would find it funny to pour acetone on their pants and then light it on fire? Having people shudder when they think of me would be a disadvantage in many careers.
This creates a good correlation between visible non-empathy and mistreating people without requiring a belief that mistreating people is generally enjoyable or useful.
Killing people in a computer game is fun for many people.
Without empathy, anything you do with other people is pretty much a game. Finding a way to abuse a person without being punished for it, is like solving a puzzle. One could move to more horrible acts simply as a matter of curiosity; just like a person who completed a puzzle wants to try a more difficult puzzle.
(By the way, this discussion partially assumes that psychopaths are exactly like neurotypical people, just minus the empathy. Which may be wrong. Which may make some of our conclusions wrong.)
One of the principles of interesting computer games is that sometimes a simple action by the player leads to a lot of response from the game. This has an obvious application to why hurting people might be fun.
Without empathy, anything you do with other people is pretty much a game.
No it isn’t. Why don’t you try to crawl out of your typical mind space for a moment?
Killing people in a computer game is fun for many people.
That’s because it usually has good consequences for the player, the violence is cartoony, and NPCs don’t really suffer. You could be an incredibly unempathethic person, and still not find hurting real people fun even in the gut level because it has so many other downsides than your mirror neurons firing.
I myself possess very little affective empathy, and find people suggesting that I therefore should be a sadist pretty insulting (and unempathetic). I’m also a doctor, so you people should tremble in fear for my patients :)
(By the way, this discussion partially assumes that psychopaths are exactly like neurotypical people, just minus the empathy. Which may be wrong. Which may make some of our conclusions wrong.)
Well yes, it’s clearly fun for at least some people. It’s just that the observations do not require anyone to think that mistreating people is strongly tempting for many, most, or all people, which is how I read your comment above.
If I were a non-empathic person who’d chosen a strategy of following the rules to blend into society, I would find it very inconvenient for people to think I was anything like him, and would therefore attempt to emulate empathy under most conditions.
That’s exactly how I approach the situation. I find the claim that I can’t be moral without empathy just as ridiculous as you would find the claim that you can’t be moral without believing in god. I also find moral philosophies that depend on either of them reprehensible. Claiming moral superiority because of thoughs or affects that are easy to feign is just utter status grabbing in my book.
The only acquaintance I’ve had who was obviously non-empathic appeared to be quite amused by harming people, and he’d talk coldly about how it would be more convenient for him if his parents were dead. If I were a non-empathic person who’d chosen a strategy of following the rules to blend into society, I would find it very inconvenient for people to think I was anything like him, and would therefore attempt to emulate empathy under most conditions. Who would want to cooperate with me in a mutually profitable endeavor if they thought I was the kind of person who would find it funny to pour acetone on their pants and then light it on fire? Having people shudder when they think of me would be a disadvantage in many careers.
This creates a good correlation between visible non-empathy and mistreating people without requiring a belief that mistreating people is generally enjoyable or useful.
Except that it does suggest that mistreating people is fun for at least some people.
Killing people in a computer game is fun for many people.
Without empathy, anything you do with other people is pretty much a game. Finding a way to abuse a person without being punished for it, is like solving a puzzle. One could move to more horrible acts simply as a matter of curiosity; just like a person who completed a puzzle wants to try a more difficult puzzle.
(By the way, this discussion partially assumes that psychopaths are exactly like neurotypical people, just minus the empathy. Which may be wrong. Which may make some of our conclusions wrong.)
One of the principles of interesting computer games is that sometimes a simple action by the player leads to a lot of response from the game. This has an obvious application to why hurting people might be fun.
No it isn’t. Why don’t you try to crawl out of your typical mind space for a moment?
That’s because it usually has good consequences for the player, the violence is cartoony, and NPCs don’t really suffer. You could be an incredibly unempathethic person, and still not find hurting real people fun even in the gut level because it has so many other downsides than your mirror neurons firing.
I myself possess very little affective empathy, and find people suggesting that I therefore should be a sadist pretty insulting (and unempathetic). I’m also a doctor, so you people should tremble in fear for my patients :)
It’s wrong.
Well yes, it’s clearly fun for at least some people. It’s just that the observations do not require anyone to think that mistreating people is strongly tempting for many, most, or all people, which is how I read your comment above.
That’s exactly how I approach the situation. I find the claim that I can’t be moral without empathy just as ridiculous as you would find the claim that you can’t be moral without believing in god. I also find moral philosophies that depend on either of them reprehensible. Claiming moral superiority because of thoughs or affects that are easy to feign is just utter status grabbing in my book.
Why does it seem you’re still confusing sadism and nonempathy although you seemed to untangle them in the grandparent?