As having gone to Lighthaven, does this still feel marginally worth it at Lighthaven where we mostly tried to make it architecturally difficult to have larger conversations? I can see the case for music here, but like, I do think music makes it harder to talk to people (especially on the louder end) and that does seem like a substantial cost to me.
Talking 1-1 with music is so difficult to me that I don’t enjoy a place if there’s music. I expect many people on/towards the spectrum could be similar.
Having been at two LH parties, one with music and one without, I definitely ended up in the “large conversation with 2 people talking and 5 people listening”-situation much more in the party without music.
That said, I did find it much easier to meet new people at the party without music, as this also makes it much easier to join conversations that sound interesting when you walk past (being able to actually overhear them).
This might be one of the reasons why people tend to progressively increase the volume of the music during parties. First give people a chance to meet interesting people and easily join conversations. Then increase the volume to facilitate smaller conversations.
Yeah, when there’s loud music it’s much easier for me to understand people I know than people I don’t because I’m already used to their speaking patterns, and can more easily infer what they said even when I don’t hear it perfectly. And also because any misunderstanding or difficulty that rises out of not hearing each other well is less awkward with someone I already know than someone I do.
As someone who’s spent meaningful amounts of time at LH during parties, absolutely yes. You successfully made it architecturally awkward to have large conversations, but that’s often cashed out as “there’s a giant conversation group in and totally blocking [the Entry Hallway Room of Aumann]/[the lawn between A&B]/[one or another firepit and its surrounding walkways]; that conversation group is suffering from the obvious described failure modes, but no one in it is sufficiently confident or agentic or charismatic to successfully break out into a subgroup/subconversation.
I’d recommend quiet music during parties? Or maybe even just a soundtrack of natural noises—birdsong and wind? rain and thunder? - to serve the purpose instead.
@habryka Forgot to comment on the changes you implemented for soundscape at LH during the mixer—possibly you may want to put a speaker in the Bayes window overlooking the courtyard firepit. People started congregating/pooling there (and notably not at the other firepit next to it!) because it was the locally-quietest location, and then the usual failure modes of an attempted 12-person conversation ensued.
Seems cheap to get the info value, especially for quieter music? Can be expensive to set up a multi-room sound system, but it’s probably most valuable in the room that is largest/most prone to large group formation, so maybe worth experimenting with a speaker playing some instrumental jazz or something. I do think the architecture does a fair bit of work already.
I’m being slightly off-topic here, but how does one “makes it architecturally difficult to have larger conversations”? More broadly, the topic of designing spaces where people can think better/do cooler stuff/etc. is fascinating, but I don’t know where to learn more than the very basics of it. Do you know good books, articles, etc. on these questions, by any chance?
Thanks! I knew of Alexander, but you reminded me that I’ve been procrastinating on tackling the 1,200+ pages of A Pattern Language for a few months, and I’ve now started reading it :-)
Was one giant cluster last two times I was there. In the outside area. Not sure why the physical space arrangement wasn’t working. I guess walking into a cubby feels risky/imposing, and leaving feels rude. I would have liked it to work.
I’m not sure how you could improve it. I was trying to think of something last time I was there. “Damn all these nice cubbies are empty.” I could not think of anything.
As having gone to Lighthaven, does this still feel marginally worth it at Lighthaven where we mostly tried to make it architecturally difficult to have larger conversations? I can see the case for music here, but like, I do think music makes it harder to talk to people (especially on the louder end) and that does seem like a substantial cost to me.
Talking 1-1 with music is so difficult to me that I don’t enjoy a place if there’s music. I expect many people on/towards the spectrum could be similar.
Having been at two LH parties, one with music and one without, I definitely ended up in the “large conversation with 2 people talking and 5 people listening”-situation much more in the party without music.
That said, I did find it much easier to meet new people at the party without music, as this also makes it much easier to join conversations that sound interesting when you walk past (being able to actually overhear them).
This might be one of the reasons why people tend to progressively increase the volume of the music during parties. First give people a chance to meet interesting people and easily join conversations. Then increase the volume to facilitate smaller conversations.
Yeah, when there’s loud music it’s much easier for me to understand people I know than people I don’t because I’m already used to their speaking patterns, and can more easily infer what they said even when I don’t hear it perfectly. And also because any misunderstanding or difficulty that rises out of not hearing each other well is less awkward with someone I already know than someone I do.
As someone who’s spent meaningful amounts of time at LH during parties, absolutely yes. You successfully made it architecturally awkward to have large conversations, but that’s often cashed out as “there’s a giant conversation group in and totally blocking [the Entry Hallway Room of Aumann]/[the lawn between A&B]/[one or another firepit and its surrounding walkways]; that conversation group is suffering from the obvious described failure modes, but no one in it is sufficiently confident or agentic or charismatic to successfully break out into a subgroup/subconversation.
I’d recommend quiet music during parties? Or maybe even just a soundtrack of natural noises—birdsong and wind? rain and thunder? - to serve the purpose instead.
@habryka Forgot to comment on the changes you implemented for soundscape at LH during the mixer—possibly you may want to put a speaker in the Bayes window overlooking the courtyard firepit. People started congregating/pooling there (and notably not at the other firepit next to it!) because it was the locally-quietest location, and then the usual failure modes of an attempted 12-person conversation ensued.
Seems cheap to get the info value, especially for quieter music? Can be expensive to set up a multi-room sound system, but it’s probably most valuable in the room that is largest/most prone to large group formation, so maybe worth experimenting with a speaker playing some instrumental jazz or something. I do think the architecture does a fair bit of work already.
I’m being slightly off-topic here, but how does one “makes it architecturally difficult to have larger conversations”? More broadly, the topic of designing spaces where people can think better/do cooler stuff/etc. is fascinating, but I don’t know where to learn more than the very basics of it. Do you know good books, articles, etc. on these questions, by any chance?
I like Christopher Alexander’s stuff.
On the object level question, the way to encourage small conversations architecturally is to have lots of nooks that only fit 3-6 people.
“Nook”, a word which here includes both “circles of seats with no other easily movable seats nearby” and “easily accessible small rooms”.
Thanks! I knew of Alexander, but you reminded me that I’ve been procrastinating on tackling the 1,200+ pages of A Pattern Language for a few months, and I’ve now started reading it :-)
Was one giant cluster last two times I was there. In the outside area. Not sure why the physical space arrangement wasn’t working. I guess walking into a cubby feels risky/imposing, and leaving feels rude. I would have liked it to work.
I’m not sure how you could improve it. I was trying to think of something last time I was there. “Damn all these nice cubbies are empty.” I could not think of anything.
Just my experience.