In the second link I gave, Marken self-cites 6 of his papers that were published in various journals over the years. See page 8 of the PDF. I don’t know if there are any more publications than that, since Marken said he was only giving a 45-minute summary of his 25 years’ work. (Oh, and before he learned PCT, he wrote a textbook on experimental design in psychology.)
However, I suspect that since you missed those bits, there’s a very good chance you didn’t read either of the links—and that would be a mistake, if your goal is to understand, rather than to simply identify a weak spot to jump on. You have rounded a very long distance to an inaccurate cliche.
See, Marken never actually complained that he couldn’t get published, he complained that he could not abide teaching pre-PCT psychology, as he considered it equivalent to pre-Darwin biology or pre-Galileo physics, and it would therefore be silly to spend most of a semester teaching the wrong thing in order to turn around at the end and explain why everything they just learned was wrong. That was the issue that led him to leave his professorship, not publication issues.
I was about to write that Marken should have considered getting an affiliation to an engineering department. Engineers love them some closed-loop systems, and there would probably have been scope for research into the design of human-machine interactions. Then I read his bio, and learned that that was pretty much what he did, only as a consultant, not an academic.
The words you used in the original comment don’t lend themselves to the new interpretation. There was nothing about teaching in them:
(One psychology professor wrote how, once he began using PCT models to design experiments, his results were actually too good—his colleagues began advising him on ways to make changes so that his results would be more vague and ambiguous… and therefore more publishable!)
There’s no contradiction between what pjeby wrote in his original comment and what he wrote subsequently about Marken. In this exchange, you seem to me to be suffering from a negative halo effect -- your (possibly fair) assessment of pjeby’s interests and goals in writing on this site have made you uncharitable about this particular anecdote.
You are right, I didn’t reread the first Eby’s comment in full before replying on the second, losing the context, and now that I did, even my first comment seems worded incorrectly.
But the subsequent comment was supposed to provide support for the original comment. (It was proffered in response to a request for such support). It therefore seems reasonable to criticise it if it fails to do so, doesn’t it?
ETA: Apologies. This comment was stupid. I should learn to read. Withdrawn.
ETA2: Please don’t upvote this! I shouldn’t be able to gain karma by saying stupid things and then admitting that they were stupid. If we want to incentivise renouncing stupid comments, we should presumably downvote the originals and upvote the renunciations so that the net effect is zero. (Or, if you think the original was correct, I guess you could upvote it and downvote the renunciation.)
Yes, there’s nothing about teaching there. What’s your point? The only reason I mentioned the teaching aspect is to debunk the nonsense you were spewing about him not being able to be published.
(For someone who claims to want to keep discussion quality high, and who claims to not want to get involved in long threads with me, you sure do go out of your way to start them, not to mention filling them misconceptions and projections.)
In the second link I gave, Marken self-cites 6 of his papers that were published in various journals over the years. See page 8 of the PDF. I don’t know if there are any more publications than that, since Marken said he was only giving a 45-minute summary of his 25 years’ work. (Oh, and before he learned PCT, he wrote a textbook on experimental design in psychology.)
However, I suspect that since you missed those bits, there’s a very good chance you didn’t read either of the links—and that would be a mistake, if your goal is to understand, rather than to simply identify a weak spot to jump on. You have rounded a very long distance to an inaccurate cliche.
See, Marken never actually complained that he couldn’t get published, he complained that he could not abide teaching pre-PCT psychology, as he considered it equivalent to pre-Darwin biology or pre-Galileo physics, and it would therefore be silly to spend most of a semester teaching the wrong thing in order to turn around at the end and explain why everything they just learned was wrong. That was the issue that led him to leave his professorship, not publication issues.
I was about to write that Marken should have considered getting an affiliation to an engineering department. Engineers love them some closed-loop systems, and there would probably have been scope for research into the design of human-machine interactions. Then I read his bio, and learned that that was pretty much what he did, only as a consultant, not an academic.
The words you used in the original comment don’t lend themselves to the new interpretation. There was nothing about teaching in them:
There’s no contradiction between what pjeby wrote in his original comment and what he wrote subsequently about Marken. In this exchange, you seem to me to be suffering from a negative halo effect -- your (possibly fair) assessment of pjeby’s interests and goals in writing on this site have made you uncharitable about this particular anecdote.
You are right, I didn’t reread the first Eby’s comment in full before replying on the second, losing the context, and now that I did, even my first comment seems worded incorrectly.
But the subsequent comment was supposed to provide support for the original comment. (It was proffered in response to a request for such support). It therefore seems reasonable to criticise it if it fails to do so, doesn’t it?
ETA: Apologies. This comment was stupid. I should learn to read. Withdrawn.
ETA2: Please don’t upvote this! I shouldn’t be able to gain karma by saying stupid things and then admitting that they were stupid. If we want to incentivise renouncing stupid comments, we should presumably downvote the originals and upvote the renunciations so that the net effect is zero. (Or, if you think the original was correct, I guess you could upvote it and downvote the renunciation.)
It did. See the first excerpt pjeby quoted in reply to orthonormal’s query.
Sorry. You’re right. I’m an idiot.
Yes, there’s nothing about teaching there. What’s your point? The only reason I mentioned the teaching aspect is to debunk the nonsense you were spewing about him not being able to be published.
(For someone who claims to want to keep discussion quality high, and who claims to not want to get involved in long threads with me, you sure do go out of your way to start them, not to mention filling them misconceptions and projections.)