My attempt at warning anyone who might be tempted to provide an example that it’s a trap, since I’ve fallen into this one before: if you misunderstand the ritual, and provide true examples of actually unpopular positions, you’re gonna get strongly downvoted (and likely triggering rate-limiting).
What you’re supposed to do is provide false examples that you then get simultaneously karma-upvoted & agreement-downvoted for, which reinforces the community’s self-conception of encouraging disagreement.
EDIT: @the gears to ascension Thanks in part to your downvotes, I can’t reply to your comment. What do you think “bullying people into conformity” would look like other than those with lots of karma being able to brute-force the site into looking more like what they prefer? To call this an “issue” is risible: this is deliberate design. Well-Kept Gardens, etc.
Mmm. If someone provides real examples and gets downvoted for them, isn’t that stronger evidence of issues here?
There’s presence of examples of any kind, distinction between real and not-real examples, and (voting) response to an attempt to provide examples if they are considered not-real. We could in principle collect data on all three of these, and if you provide the labeling we can also see your distinction between real and not-real examples, how it differs from someone else’s distinction.
Absence of such data makes the issue more murky and less resolved, requests for more data seem clearly beneficial regardless of anyone’s motivations or positions. Especially if the proponents of the unpopular position are the ones framing the data (there is no need to stay in the trap of the framing of a particular request for data), as this presents a greater opportunity for someone to change their mind, which is progress compared to the no-op of nobody changing their mind. Data is an asymmetric weapon, it acts to convince with more efficacy in the direction of true state of things that generated the data.
Mmm. If someone provides real examples and gets downvoted for them, isn’t that stronger evidence of issues here? I think you are actually just wrong about this claim. Also, if you in particular provide examples of where you’ve been downvoted I expect it will be ones that carry my downvote because you were being an ass, rather than because of any factual claim they contain. (And I expect to get downvoted for saying so!)
j is likely to not have that problem, unless they also are systematically simply being an ass and calling it an opinion. If you describe ideas and don’t do this shit Shankar and I are, I think you probably won’t be downvoted.
My attempt at warning anyone who might be tempted to provide an example that it’s a trap, since I’ve fallen into this one before: if you misunderstand the ritual, and provide true examples of actually unpopular positions, you’re gonna get strongly downvoted (and likely triggering rate-limiting).
What you’re supposed to do is provide false examples that you then get simultaneously karma-upvoted & agreement-downvoted for, which reinforces the community’s self-conception of encouraging disagreement.
EDIT: @the gears to ascension Thanks in part to your downvotes, I can’t reply to your comment. What do you think “bullying people into conformity” would look like other than those with lots of karma being able to brute-force the site into looking more like what they prefer? To call this an “issue” is risible: this is deliberate design. Well-Kept Gardens, etc.
On your “Haha” react to the gears to ascension’s words:
There’s presence of examples of any kind, distinction between real and not-real examples, and (voting) response to an attempt to provide examples if they are considered not-real. We could in principle collect data on all three of these, and if you provide the labeling we can also see your distinction between real and not-real examples, how it differs from someone else’s distinction.
Absence of such data makes the issue more murky and less resolved, requests for more data seem clearly beneficial regardless of anyone’s motivations or positions. Especially if the proponents of the unpopular position are the ones framing the data (there is no need to stay in the trap of the framing of a particular request for data), as this presents a greater opportunity for someone to change their mind, which is progress compared to the no-op of nobody changing their mind. Data is an asymmetric weapon, it acts to convince with more efficacy in the direction of true state of things that generated the data.
Mmm. If someone provides real examples and gets downvoted for them, isn’t that stronger evidence of issues here? I think you are actually just wrong about this claim. Also, if you in particular provide examples of where you’ve been downvoted I expect it will be ones that carry my downvote because you were being an ass, rather than because of any factual claim they contain. (And I expect to get downvoted for saying so!)
j is likely to not have that problem, unless they also are systematically simply being an ass and calling it an opinion. If you describe ideas and don’t do this shit Shankar and I are, I think you probably won’t be downvoted.