Bad habits like reading crap on the Internet, watching TV, watching porn, playing video games, sleeping in, and so on are obvious losses.
Objection: I like all of these things. Well, except watching TV. Calvin said it best: “There’s never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
But I actually like the goal of becoming (the equivalent of) a thousand-year-old vampire, too. And there’s not enough time for that, either. That is, ultimately, what convinced me that death is bad and life extension is good: There’s not enough time to do life right. Doing it right, at least for me, means both becoming awesome and sleeping in when I feel like it.
It’s not just bad habits, though; a lot of it is your broader position in life that wastes time or doesn’t. For example, repetitive wage work that doesn’t challenge you is really just trading a huge chunk of your life for not even much money. Obviously sometimes you have to, but you have to realize that trading away half your life is a pretty raw deal that is to be avoided. You don’t even really get anything for commuting and housework. Maybe I really should quit my job soon...
If your field of expertise pays, you can level up while still getting paid by changing jobs regularly. I am not sure how often “regularly” should be, but I noticed a huge boost in my own skills the last couple times I started a new job in my field, followed by eventually getting bored and leveling off. Assuming you’re following a normal career, you can’t change too often or getting the next job will become hard; but if you’re bored, complacent, and inert, it’s probably time to move on.
[Edit: is Noticing Boredom a recognized mental skill? Because it should be.]
Full disclosure: I’m in the process of trying to do exactly this now. Note to six-month future self: Reflect on whether I actually did experience a similar skills boost after switching.
I have 168 hours a week, of which only 110 are feasible to use (sleep), and by the time we include all the chores, wage-work, bad habits, and procrastination, I probably only live 30 hours a week. That’s bullshit; three quarters of my life pissed away. I could live four times as much if I could cut out that stuff.
Amen.
Also, on the topic of social environment, here is the obligatory plug for the Less Wrong Study Hall. If you’re outside the Bay Area and have no one to work with, come work with us. We have cookies. (cookies may be a lie)
is Noticing Boredom a recognized mental skill? Because it should be
Very much agreed. When I started taking online courses I was surprised at how speeding up the video helped my learning. What was happening before, and what still happens when I’m watching slow, informationally dilute speeches, is my mind can’t sync up with the presentation and it wanders off on its own way so frequently that I simply can’t stop it from happening. I also didn’t used to realize how hanging around with crowds who wern’t curious and wern’t agenty in the same way I was sucked the life out of me. I thought I was just an inattentive, generally disengaged person. I was dead wrong.
I feel like I am an inattentive, disenganged person, and nonagenty people do suck the life out of me.
What changed in your case which made you see things differently?
Howdy FourFire. At some point after conceiving of a particularly lofty particularly involving plot[details available on request for LWers], I stopped trying to befriend people who wouldn’t feature anywhere in it. Whoever I’m with, there’s always an objective, though I’ll often have to pretend there isn’t and come at it sideways, which only makes it more fun.
For me there are two kinds of people, people I can do something with, and people I’ve got nothing to do with.
So if you are basically a Sensate, seeking to experience everything in the multiverse, then (good) Internet articles, books, TV and video games are like memory stones: objects containing the experiences of others, which allow you to experience something that you might never be able to experience yourself.
It’s a trade-off. Media provides alternate experiences much faster than you could do them yourself, but also at a more shallow level. There’s a case to be made for alternating between both: once you have viscerally experienced something yourself, reading about something related may make for a stronger experience, since it activates more memories and associations in you and allows you to better simulate the original experience behind the account. At the same time, having experienced second-hands accounts of something may make things in real life more rewarding to experience, because you can look at them from points of view that wouldn’t have occurred to you if you were only going on your own experience. Some of this may come via very unexpected routes, such as the time when I ended up playing sports and ended up appreciating them more due to my gaming experience:
Ended up playing some sähly (rather like floorball, with some differences such as a lack of goalies) yesterday, and was somewhat blown away. My previous experience with sähly, football, etc. had come from the physical ed lessons in school, and I’d mostly experienced it as aimless running around the ball.
But this time around, I’d played enough strategy games to pick up on the fact that the game actually had a definite tactical dimension as well. Now I didn’t realize anything terribly complicated, mostly just basic stuff like “well I could be rushing on the offense, but then if the ball gets thrown back to our side of the field, then everyone in our team will be on the wrong side, so maybe I should hang back a bit” and “I should go after that guy with the ball, even though I won’t get it from him I can force him to pass it to someone else, which is much better than letting him do whatever he wants”. But I’m not sure how much I ever thought in terms of those kinds of concepts back in elementary school—e.g. I’m pretty sure that I only had the latter insight now because I’d played enough strategy games and had read articles about military strategy.
I imagine that if our PE teachers had bothered actually explaining to us that these games had an intellectual component as well, and weren’t just about pure physical fitness, geeks like me would’ve enjoyed the thing a lot more.
Don’t throw hedonism out of your 1000 year plan so easily. The described habits are not bad for their hedonism, they are bad because they are easy, boring, and safe. They compare to 1000 year hedonism the same way joining the local jogging club or nature group compares to a tour in the armed forces. If you want to expand yourself, make life hard, build a stronger ego, try out a WoW addiction, or push your sexual comfort zone.
Disclaimer: These suggestions may be bad, may be good, but I the perspective is consistent with the 1000 year plan. It is important to recognize that the listed vices (tv, games, etc.) are unwanted because there are boring, nothing to do with hedonism.
It is important to recognize that the listed vices (tv, games, etc.) are unwanted because there are boring, nothing to do with hedonism.
I see how you can interpret it that way, but I do in fact mean that the value of hedonism in general cannot compete with the other kinds of value at stake.
Hrm. I’m not sure if I’ve gotten better at what I do, but I certainly know a crapton more than I did when I started, mostly because of exposure to new (to me) technologies. So I would say yes. It’s too soon to say if it’s begun to level off, but I suspect not, since my responsibilities are still in flux.
I have definitely gotten better at what I do, but I have also definitely leveled off again. I’m seriously considering another job switch for that reason. Probably in-company rather than out-of-company because I like working here.
Objection: I like all of these things. Well, except watching TV. Calvin said it best: “There’s never enough time to do all the nothing you want.”
But I actually like the goal of becoming (the equivalent of) a thousand-year-old vampire, too. And there’s not enough time for that, either. That is, ultimately, what convinced me that death is bad and life extension is good: There’s not enough time to do life right. Doing it right, at least for me, means both becoming awesome and sleeping in when I feel like it.
If your field of expertise pays, you can level up while still getting paid by changing jobs regularly. I am not sure how often “regularly” should be, but I noticed a huge boost in my own skills the last couple times I started a new job in my field, followed by eventually getting bored and leveling off. Assuming you’re following a normal career, you can’t change too often or getting the next job will become hard; but if you’re bored, complacent, and inert, it’s probably time to move on.
[Edit: is Noticing Boredom a recognized mental skill? Because it should be.]
Full disclosure: I’m in the process of trying to do exactly this now. Note to six-month future self: Reflect on whether I actually did experience a similar skills boost after switching.
Amen.
Also, on the topic of social environment, here is the obligatory plug for the Less Wrong Study Hall. If you’re outside the Bay Area and have no one to work with, come work with us. We have cookies. (cookies may be a lie)
Very much agreed. When I started taking online courses I was surprised at how speeding up the video helped my learning. What was happening before, and what still happens when I’m watching slow, informationally dilute speeches, is my mind can’t sync up with the presentation and it wanders off on its own way so frequently that I simply can’t stop it from happening. I also didn’t used to realize how hanging around with crowds who wern’t curious and wern’t agenty in the same way I was sucked the life out of me. I thought I was just an inattentive, generally disengaged person. I was dead wrong.
I feel like I am an inattentive, disenganged person, and nonagenty people do suck the life out of me. What changed in your case which made you see things differently?
Howdy FourFire. At some point after conceiving of a particularly lofty particularly involving plot[details available on request for LWers], I stopped trying to befriend people who wouldn’t feature anywhere in it. Whoever I’m with, there’s always an objective, though I’ll often have to pretend there isn’t and come at it sideways, which only makes it more fun.
For me there are two kinds of people, people I can do something with, and people I’ve got nothing to do with.
Good point. I like all of these things as well, except that I have no time for hedonism. So much to do! So little time! As you observe.
So if you are basically a Sensate, seeking to experience everything in the multiverse, then (good) Internet articles, books, TV and video games are like memory stones: objects containing the experiences of others, which allow you to experience something that you might never be able to experience yourself.
It’s a trade-off. Media provides alternate experiences much faster than you could do them yourself, but also at a more shallow level. There’s a case to be made for alternating between both: once you have viscerally experienced something yourself, reading about something related may make for a stronger experience, since it activates more memories and associations in you and allows you to better simulate the original experience behind the account. At the same time, having experienced second-hands accounts of something may make things in real life more rewarding to experience, because you can look at them from points of view that wouldn’t have occurred to you if you were only going on your own experience. Some of this may come via very unexpected routes, such as the time when I ended up playing sports and ended up appreciating them more due to my gaming experience:
Don’t throw hedonism out of your 1000 year plan so easily. The described habits are not bad for their hedonism, they are bad because they are easy, boring, and safe. They compare to 1000 year hedonism the same way joining the local jogging club or nature group compares to a tour in the armed forces. If you want to expand yourself, make life hard, build a stronger ego, try out a WoW addiction, or push your sexual comfort zone.
Disclaimer: These suggestions may be bad, may be good, but I the perspective is consistent with the 1000 year plan. It is important to recognize that the listed vices (tv, games, etc.) are unwanted because there are boring, nothing to do with hedonism.
wat? Maybe heroin while I’m at it?
I see how you can interpret it that way, but I do in fact mean that the value of hedonism in general cannot compete with the other kinds of value at stake.
Greetings to the above comment’s author’s six-month future self!
Did you do the switch? Did you experience the expected skills boost?
Hrm. I’m not sure if I’ve gotten better at what I do, but I certainly know a crapton more than I did when I started, mostly because of exposure to new (to me) technologies. So I would say yes. It’s too soon to say if it’s begun to level off, but I suspect not, since my responsibilities are still in flux.
Thank you for the followup.
ping for another follow up.
I have definitely gotten better at what I do, but I have also definitely leveled off again. I’m seriously considering another job switch for that reason. Probably in-company rather than out-of-company because I like working here.
Thanks for the followup!