Liza

Karma: 49

Liza 7 Nov 2012 13:21 UTC
2 points
in reply to: Epiphany’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012

Well… do you think encouraging them to experience new things is likely to make them happy?

Yes, and I wouldn’t do it if I thought it would make them sad, but, I don’t do it just because it makes them happy. I feel I can understand a person more deeply if I am with them as they react to new situations; it makes them feel more human to me and increases my ability to empathize.

For me, it’s just tiring. I want to be making people happy, not competing and winning. I like doing things that are awesome, and I like doing things that are challenging. But I don’t enjoy defeating people

The more I reflect on them, the more complicated my feelings on competition and winning seem to be… I want to be valuable to other people and accomplishment proves that I have the necessary ability; for example, if I do well on an assignment relative to my classmates then they will ask me to help them in the future.

But I also feel like there are competing forces within me. Winning leads to praise which helps me with insecurity but this bothers me; I want to be at peace with myself so I can focus on other people. If I won and it didn’t make anybody like me, I would just feel empty. I know other people can value for me for who I am rather than what I can do, and it is really important to me to learn how to accept this.

As for whether any of this is masculine or feminine I don’t know… I’m mostly happy with how I am inside, but often not happy with how I express it. I do love feeling at peace, and so want to recover from my insecurities.

Liza 7 Nov 2012 6:35 UTC
3 points
in reply to: Epiphany’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012

I live to make other people happy. This is a very feminine trait—probably related to maternal instincts.

That’s great that you can be so clear about a goal like that! I am not sure what I live for, I like making people happy but I also like trying to encourage them to experience new things.

I have never been as aggressive as I want to be. [...]

If I behave too aggressively it makes me feel very uncomfortable so I kind of understand what you mean. When I’m aggressive, like when playing a competitive game, there’s always a certain playfulness to it that reminds me it’s all in fun. I think this is what let’s me be aggressive without feeling uncomfortable; the knowledge that everyone else knows I would never seriously be aggressive.

I am no gender expert but I hope I made you feel better.

You did. : ) And I’m still trying to figure out my sexuality but I’m probably some form of pansexual too.

Liza 6 Nov 2012 12:14 UTC
2 points
in reply to: someonewrongonthenet’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012
Our society is not very accepting of people who don’t fit into gender roles. Hormonal modification is necessary to “pass”. Also, hormonal modification is much more effective the earlier you start.

Liza 6 Nov 2012 12:10 UTC
0 points
in reply to: BGFloyd’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012

Attaching the label “me” to the image I see in the mirror is essentially all I do when thinking of myself as my body. What are you doing apart from that?

I really don’t know. Perhaps my ability of introspection is inferior to yours.

What I was trying to get at with the balloon question is are you troubled by your body being gender A, or by it not being gender B? Is it an aversion, or a desire, or a restlessness, or what?

All three. It exists at every level of abstraction. If I try to ignore it, the aversions and restlessness do not go away.

Liza 6 Nov 2012 2:26 UTC
4 points
in reply to: MixedNuts’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012

Share your anxieties. I don’t know if that’ll help you, I just want to feel less alone.

I may feel that the concept of the “other” gender applies more to myself than my own, but I don’t know that my concept of genders is in any way correct in that it matches what other people think, or even matches what I will think in the future.

I have some strong hang-ups regarding sex that I know are deeply influencing me and no way of getting rid of them to see how gender identity feels to me without them. There is no real reason for these hang-ups to exist, I received no unusual conditioning. For all I know they could be a result of GID.

If I expect that further analysis will produce a certain result, should I just update now to that result and act appropriately?

Liza 6 Nov 2012 2:02 UTC
1 point
in reply to: someonewrongonthenet’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012
Whether I would actually prefer being the “other” gender socially long term. Especially say, 10 years from now.

Liza 6 Nov 2012 2:00 UTC
5 points
in reply to: BGFloyd’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012

I don’t understand how feeling like you’re in the wrong body manifests as suffering.

Me either really. It just hurts when I notice it. You may as well ask how feeling a wound on your flesh manifests as suffering.

If you were transformed into a being with no sexual characteristics at all, say, a magical non-anthropomorphic helium balloon, would you expect your suffering to be abated or partially abated or unchanged?

The thought experiment is nonsensical to me. My brain would not be able to consider that my body and if it were modified to be able to do so, the method by which it were modified would entirely determine the effect.

I cannot imagine myself as a helium balloon. I can imagine a helium balloon and attach the label “me” to it, but this does absolutely nothing for me in terms of self-image or emotion.

Liza 5 Nov 2012 21:30 UTC
3 points
in reply to: MixedNuts’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012

You have physical dysphoria independently from perception of gender by others. How does that not clinch it utterly and completely?

Because while it exists for both primary and secondary sexually dimorphic characteristics, it is much stronger for the secondary ones.

Also, can such feelings not be generated by motivated cognition? See body dysmorphic disorder.

Liza 5 Nov 2012 21:12 UTC
5 points
in reply to: Shmi’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012

Would you still be suffering if there were no behavioral expectations of you?

Yes, that would not change my body

Would you feel normal and happy if a lot of people were like you and you associated with them at will without any stigma attached?

No, same as above

Would you still strongly desire sex reassignment?

Yes

Liza 5 Nov 2012 21:06 UTC
1 point
in reply to: someonewrongonthenet’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012
I’ve never experienced anything else so obviously liable to cause motivated cognition. I have no accurate way of predicting how I will feel years in the future, because my identification is so strong it would influence me to believe anything in its favor.

In general, it seems to me that none of my thoughts are evidence because the hardware is so biased and I can conceive of no way of correcting for this.

Liza 5 Nov 2012 19:41 UTC
3 points
in reply to: someonewrongonthenet’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012

Lesswrong might be poorly equipped to address these types of questions. Have you explored any of the LGBT/transgender subreddits on reddit?

I’ve obtained much information from other sources but there is a lot of poor epistemic hygiene to sift through so I was wondering what I could find on LW.

Liza 5 Nov 2012 17:02 UTC
2 points
in reply to: NancyLebovitz’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012
He was asked and neglected to respond.

Liza 5 Nov 2012 5:15 UTC
0 points
in reply to: Mitchell_Porter’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012
Thank you for the information. Is Eliezer’s position gender essentialist?

Liza 5 Nov 2012 2:56 UTC
6 points
in reply to: Liza’s comment on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012
Also some of Eliezer’s statements on gender have made me worried.

nor have I seen any male person display a feminine personality with the same sort of depth and internal integrity, nor have I seen any male person convincingly give the appearance of having thought out the nature of feminity to that depth.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/bd/my_way/86u

Does this mean my personality has no depth? I feel very complicated and very confused but I don’t know how to tell if my personality is masculine or feminine.

I want to repair myself in the way that produces as whole and real a person as possible.

Or perhaps I am incoherent entirely, knowing both too little and too much simultaneously.

P.S. I decided to read Kushiel’s Legacy to which Eliezer keeps referring. The writing is intensely beautiful.
What links here?
- Epiphany's comment on My Way by Eliezer Yudkowsky (7 Nov 2012 5:55 UTC; 3 points)

Liza 5 Nov 2012 1:17 UTC
12 points
on: Open Thread, November 1-15, 2012
Does anyone have advice for someone suffering from many of the subjective (there is no reliable objective criteria) symptoms of gender identity disorder?

This is very scary to deal with so I would really appreciate any help.