Thermodynamics has everything to do with the statement in question.
There is the sun outside this open system.
Exactly.
What I suspect Phil was trying to express was that ethanol manufacturing requires us to expend more of the desired level of fuel than we derive from the process—which is a good point—and that this rules out ethanol as a viable energy source—which is NOT a good point.
We invest more energy in building and charging batteries than we can get out of them. That isn’t an argument against batteries, because they’re a means of transmitting energy in usable form. And extremely useful ones. Carrying around a steam-powered generator to operate a flashlight isn’t an option.
Corn ethanol is a terrible net-producer of industrial-grade fuel because its production consumes more of that level of fuel than it produces, NOT because it “takes more energy to make it than it provides”, which is trivially, obviously true of any fuel.
Termodynamics has nothing to do with this. There is the sun outside this open system.
Thermodynamics has everything to do with the statement in question.
Exactly.
What I suspect Phil was trying to express was that ethanol manufacturing requires us to expend more of the desired level of fuel than we derive from the process—which is a good point—and that this rules out ethanol as a viable energy source—which is NOT a good point.
We invest more energy in building and charging batteries than we can get out of them. That isn’t an argument against batteries, because they’re a means of transmitting energy in usable form. And extremely useful ones. Carrying around a steam-powered generator to operate a flashlight isn’t an option.
Corn ethanol is a terrible net-producer of industrial-grade fuel because its production consumes more of that level of fuel than it produces, NOT because it “takes more energy to make it than it provides”, which is trivially, obviously true of any fuel.