Your suggestion is not helpful. It relies on false assumptions, doesn’t pay attention to the nature of my complaint, violates the spirit of the exercise, and is dismissive of my level of self-knowledge, and that I would respond this way was predictable based on other commenting that has happened in this thread. If you’re not going to pay attention to what kind of advice I’m asking for I don’t know why you’re trying to give me any. (Others’ recommendations have already fared better than yours, and not just because that isn’t difficult to manage, so my request for advice wasn’t fruitless, although it does seem to result in uninformed noise production as a side effect.)
If you want to get fit it’s going to take effort and doing things that you don’t really want to to. Also, it’s a good idea to get over harmful and unnecessary aversions regardless. Also, don’t ask for advice if you can’t take it.
edit: The real issue here is that you don’t have strong enough motivation in the first place. If you can increase that (for example, by visualizing the benefits of being fit vs. the costs of being unfit in the long run), you’ll find it a lot easier to get started without a bunch of borderline-crazy restrictions.
Your advice was not what I asked for. Here are other examples of things that are technically advice, but which are not what I asked for and which am not obliged to accept cheerfully, that share a reference class with what you said:
“If you want to lose weight, you’re going about it the wrong way and putting too many constraints on what you’ll do to achieve it; exercise won’t help, just stop shoving food into your face.”
“You get bored by exercise? That means your brain is defective. Try ten years of therapy and some psychiatric drugs!”
“You’ll stop being bothered by sunshine if you just sit out in it for a couple of hours every day until you tan darker. Also, getting exposure to sunshine is a good idea regardless.”
“If you don’t have enough money to spend on exercise equipment but you’re able to get on the Internet you’re a crap financial planner. Come back when you have your priorities straight. If you want to get fit you’ll have to give up some of your luxuries.”
Much more importantly, though… do you not see the connotation of unpleasant, uncareful other-optimizing, and frequently contempt, in all those statements and what you’ve said to Alicorn, or do you think it’s correct to use that connotation, or that it doesn’t matter and people are wrong to care, or what?
The world is not obligated to be convenient for you.
I assume you state this because you are under the impression that Alicorn believes/acted like/implied the world is obligated to be convenient for Alicorn.
That is not the impression I have obtained by reading the posts in this discussion. What specifically gave you that impression?
Maybe that was slightly misphrased, but she seems to be assuming that if there isn’t a convenient, relatively effortless way to do something, then it’s not worth doing.
Effort is hard enough to judge in person and pretty much impossible over the internet. I have observed more then once in my life people judged as lazy, or many other negative traits, only to have the person years latter discover a perviously unknown medical condition causing the underlying problems. Once it is diagnosed as organ failure, a growth putting pressure in an odd place society stops judging them as lazy or any number of other negative traits.
The initial label of laziness(or other negative trait) was a logical misstep, coming to a conclusion without sufficient evidence.
I didn’t suggest a starvation diet, and sunscreen exists. Besides, my general point is that sometimes you need to try harder instead of giving up due to things that aren’t even harmful, and also realize that irrational psychological flaws are things that should and in many cases can be overcome (I know, I’ve done it), not taken as unshakeable premises.
I understood/understand that was/is your point. I was referring to “select people”, meaning people who are more sensitive to reduced food intake or photo sensitive. People not near the mean of the bell curve.
realize that irrational psychological flaws are things that should and in many cases can be overcome (I know, I’ve done it), not taken as unshakeable premises.
I know I have done it too. However I can not put “psychological flaws” in the right context to understand exactly what you mean by it, since it is not always possible to just try harder to change some physical structures that cause said psychological flaws.
It is awesome when trying harder fixes the problem. The problem is not always not trying hard enough or lack of motivation, it can because an organ is slowly dying in your body, or you produce proteins in a different as of yet unmeasurable way due to a quirk of genetics, or one of many other hard to diagnoses and solve problems.
If you want to engage Alicorn on her level or lack thereof of effort your should be asking for a detailed description of what she has tried and for how long, but I have not observed you doing that.
Your suggestion is not helpful. It relies on false assumptions, doesn’t pay attention to the nature of my complaint, violates the spirit of the exercise, and is dismissive of my level of self-knowledge, and that I would respond this way was predictable based on other commenting that has happened in this thread. If you’re not going to pay attention to what kind of advice I’m asking for I don’t know why you’re trying to give me any. (Others’ recommendations have already fared better than yours, and not just because that isn’t difficult to manage, so my request for advice wasn’t fruitless, although it does seem to result in uninformed noise production as a side effect.)
If you want to get fit it’s going to take effort and doing things that you don’t really want to to. Also, it’s a good idea to get over harmful and unnecessary aversions regardless. Also, don’t ask for advice if you can’t take it.
edit: The real issue here is that you don’t have strong enough motivation in the first place. If you can increase that (for example, by visualizing the benefits of being fit vs. the costs of being unfit in the long run), you’ll find it a lot easier to get started without a bunch of borderline-crazy restrictions.
Your advice was not what I asked for. Here are other examples of things that are technically advice, but which are not what I asked for and which am not obliged to accept cheerfully, that share a reference class with what you said:
“If you want to lose weight, you’re going about it the wrong way and putting too many constraints on what you’ll do to achieve it; exercise won’t help, just stop shoving food into your face.”
“You get bored by exercise? That means your brain is defective. Try ten years of therapy and some psychiatric drugs!”
“You’ll stop being bothered by sunshine if you just sit out in it for a couple of hours every day until you tan darker. Also, getting exposure to sunshine is a good idea regardless.”
“If you don’t have enough money to spend on exercise equipment but you’re able to get on the Internet you’re a crap financial planner. Come back when you have your priorities straight. If you want to get fit you’ll have to give up some of your luxuries.”
So, to sum up, go away.
and 3. there are essentially true to first order. The world is not obligated to be convenient for you.
Taken as a purely factual statement, (1) appears to be simply false for some people.
Much more importantly, though… do you not see the connotation of unpleasant, uncareful other-optimizing, and frequently contempt, in all those statements and what you’ve said to Alicorn, or do you think it’s correct to use that connotation, or that it doesn’t matter and people are wrong to care, or what?
My reply to the edited post:
I assume you state this because you are under the impression that Alicorn believes/acted like/implied the world is obligated to be convenient for Alicorn.
That is not the impression I have obtained by reading the posts in this discussion. What specifically gave you that impression?
Maybe that was slightly misphrased, but she seems to be assuming that if there isn’t a convenient, relatively effortless way to do something, then it’s not worth doing.
Effort is hard enough to judge in person and pretty much impossible over the internet. I have observed more then once in my life people judged as lazy, or many other negative traits, only to have the person years latter discover a perviously unknown medical condition causing the underlying problems. Once it is diagnosed as organ failure, a growth putting pressure in an odd place society stops judging them as lazy or any number of other negative traits.
The initial label of laziness(or other negative trait) was a logical misstep, coming to a conclusion without sufficient evidence.
edit: The whole post I responded to was:
The negative consequence of following through with 1 or 3 can be so high for select people that they are not worth doing.
Following through with 1 may cause weight loss but may also cause diminished intelligence, diminished energy, malnutrition, again with select people.
Following through on 3 may cause cancer or increase the risk of cancer to high levels, again with select people.
This statement is true, however the cost may be too high with known methods. Hence this exercise to produce new methods to experiment with.
I didn’t suggest a starvation diet, and sunscreen exists. Besides, my general point is that sometimes you need to try harder instead of giving up due to things that aren’t even harmful, and also realize that irrational psychological flaws are things that should and in many cases can be overcome (I know, I’ve done it), not taken as unshakeable premises.
I understood/understand that was/is your point. I was referring to “select people”, meaning people who are more sensitive to reduced food intake or photo sensitive. People not near the mean of the bell curve.
I know I have done it too. However I can not put “psychological flaws” in the right context to understand exactly what you mean by it, since it is not always possible to just try harder to change some physical structures that cause said psychological flaws.
It is awesome when trying harder fixes the problem. The problem is not always not trying hard enough or lack of motivation, it can because an organ is slowly dying in your body, or you produce proteins in a different as of yet unmeasurable way due to a quirk of genetics, or one of many other hard to diagnoses and solve problems.
If you want to engage Alicorn on her level or lack thereof of effort your should be asking for a detailed description of what she has tried and for how long, but I have not observed you doing that.
As a borderline crazyperson, I take offense to this.