Regarding optimal mental performance: I’ve bought some modafinil and piracetam recently. I think I remember hearing some people on LW use these drugs. Does anybody have any wisdom or experiences they would like to share? How significant are the effects? Were your experiences good or bad?
Modafinil increased my blitz chess rating by 150 points the first time I took it. That is completely ridiculous. The effects weren’t as strong after that, but still very noticeable. It definitely worked to keep me awake for long hours. One time it totally fucked me up for 3 days or so: I took it thinking I’d stay up, but then I was like nah, never mind, I’ll go to sleep ’cuz I’m really tired. Like an idiot. I then got 5 or so hours of fitful sleep followed by about 5 more hours of thrashing about on my mattress follow by about 10 more hours of groggy sleep deprivation-induced pain followed by a completely messed up sleep cycle for the next few days of constant tiredness. So, it’s awesome when you use it right, but be careful to stay up for the duration of the effects (12 hours or so, I think.)
Also, there are idiosyncratic reactions—I know one person who found that Modafinil made him sleep—a lot. It was very refreshing—possibly deeper than his usual sleep.
This seems to be very rare, or at least I haven’t heard of it happening to anyone else, but I think it implies that you should try the drug for the first time when it isn’t important that it works.
A friend used Modafinil on the same day she took a diet pill she wasn’t aware contained caffeine. The result was not good. She could not stop picking at existing sores and pulling hair out—resorting to putting shampoo in her hair to keep her hands out, and moved to productive, meticulous leg-hair removal via tweezers to extend the mitigation as long as possible. Not to scare you away from it, or anything, just take care :)
Interesting. I have a bad sleep cycle already, so that was a major concern. I thought eugeroics have a reputation for not damaging sleep cycle like amphetamine (promoting wakefulness without interfering with normal sleep). Anyway, I guess as long as I take it in the morning, it should be metabolized by bed time. Thanks for the info.
What I’ve heard is that modafinil has exactly the same set of effects as amphetamines, just with different proportions, particularly much less of the negative ones. But there’s a lot of variation from person to person.
The messed up sleep cycle part could have been coincidence: my sleep schedule is both chaotic and easily perturbed, such that random things can screw it up for days. But yeah, if you take it in the morning you should be fine. I mostly used it for staying up for 2 days in a row instead of 1, which I think is a nonstandard use case.
It would be better if you asked on LW only if you had something more specific (for example, if you had developed a theory of akrasia and thought a particular nootropic might help as has been done with sulbutiamine).
Well, I already researched general info, but I thought I would ask on LW because I suspect the commenters here are less likely to forget to take placebo effect or coincidence into account when describing effects.
I know it’s tangential to the site topic, but it is the open thread, not a top-level thread.
Agreed, I’m curious to know what rational people think about specific nootropes. You should start a nootrope discussion in the discussion page.
For what its worth, I’ve lurked around the imminst forums, and am generally impressed with the level of carefulness.
As for my own use:
I tried Modafinil a few times, at small doses (about 25 mg and 10 mg). Both times I had greatly enhanced focus, and reduced tolerance for nuanced complex thought. That is, I took it while programming and found I could focus and execute a design, but had a hard time stepping back to think a design through (I just wanted to get to work, damnit!).
Also, even on my small doses, taken in the morning, I was completely incapable of sleep for the next 40 hours or so (the last 20 hours of which were incredibly unproductive and almost painful). I’m sensitive to uppers in general though.
Needless to say, I don’t plan on using Modafinil again, unless an extreme situation arises. On the other hand, I’ve met plenty of people who seem to be able to take it daily at high doses with no negative side effects.
Regarding optimal mental performance: I’ve bought some modafinil and piracetam recently. I think I remember hearing some people on LW use these drugs. Does anybody have any wisdom or experiences they would like to share? How significant are the effects? Were your experiences good or bad?
Modafinil increased my blitz chess rating by 150 points the first time I took it. That is completely ridiculous. The effects weren’t as strong after that, but still very noticeable. It definitely worked to keep me awake for long hours. One time it totally fucked me up for 3 days or so: I took it thinking I’d stay up, but then I was like nah, never mind, I’ll go to sleep ’cuz I’m really tired. Like an idiot. I then got 5 or so hours of fitful sleep followed by about 5 more hours of thrashing about on my mattress follow by about 10 more hours of groggy sleep deprivation-induced pain followed by a completely messed up sleep cycle for the next few days of constant tiredness. So, it’s awesome when you use it right, but be careful to stay up for the duration of the effects (12 hours or so, I think.)
I am quite obviously not a doctor, though.
Also, there are idiosyncratic reactions—I know one person who found that Modafinil made him sleep—a lot. It was very refreshing—possibly deeper than his usual sleep.
This seems to be very rare, or at least I haven’t heard of it happening to anyone else, but I think it implies that you should try the drug for the first time when it isn’t important that it works.
I had sleep problems as well with Modafinil.
A friend used Modafinil on the same day she took a diet pill she wasn’t aware contained caffeine. The result was not good. She could not stop picking at existing sores and pulling hair out—resorting to putting shampoo in her hair to keep her hands out, and moved to productive, meticulous leg-hair removal via tweezers to extend the mitigation as long as possible. Not to scare you away from it, or anything, just take care :)
Interesting. I have a bad sleep cycle already, so that was a major concern. I thought eugeroics have a reputation for not damaging sleep cycle like amphetamine (promoting wakefulness without interfering with normal sleep). Anyway, I guess as long as I take it in the morning, it should be metabolized by bed time. Thanks for the info.
What I’ve heard is that modafinil has exactly the same set of effects as amphetamines, just with different proportions, particularly much less of the negative ones. But there’s a lot of variation from person to person.
The messed up sleep cycle part could have been coincidence: my sleep schedule is both chaotic and easily perturbed, such that random things can screw it up for days. But yeah, if you take it in the morning you should be fine. I mostly used it for staying up for 2 days in a row instead of 1, which I think is a nonstandard use case.
I would point out that if you are interested in general information, there are many larger sites to search for information. Some quick links:
http://www.erowid.org/
http://www.imminst.org/forum/
http://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/
http://www.bluelight.ru/
It would be better if you asked on LW only if you had something more specific (for example, if you had developed a theory of akrasia and thought a particular nootropic might help as has been done with sulbutiamine).
(For completeness, I keep a record of my nootropics in http://www.gwern.net/Nootropics )
Well, I already researched general info, but I thought I would ask on LW because I suspect the commenters here are less likely to forget to take placebo effect or coincidence into account when describing effects.
I know it’s tangential to the site topic, but it is the open thread, not a top-level thread.
Agreed, I’m curious to know what rational people think about specific nootropes. You should start a nootrope discussion in the discussion page.
For what its worth, I’ve lurked around the imminst forums, and am generally impressed with the level of carefulness.
As for my own use:
I tried Modafinil a few times, at small doses (about 25 mg and 10 mg). Both times I had greatly enhanced focus, and reduced tolerance for nuanced complex thought. That is, I took it while programming and found I could focus and execute a design, but had a hard time stepping back to think a design through (I just wanted to get to work, damnit!).
Also, even on my small doses, taken in the morning, I was completely incapable of sleep for the next 40 hours or so (the last 20 hours of which were incredibly unproductive and almost painful). I’m sensitive to uppers in general though.
Needless to say, I don’t plan on using Modafinil again, unless an extreme situation arises. On the other hand, I’ve met plenty of people who seem to be able to take it daily at high doses with no negative side effects.
Good idea, I created a discussion.