So this may be more complicated than I thought, in that all of the examples below seem really bad to me, but that might just be an example of my personal bias. I think if any of them get, let’s say, more than ten upvotes I’ll assume they’re generally agreed to be a good argument and I’ll put them in—does that sound like a reasonable bar? That means upvote them if you think they’re worthy of inclusion.
I was trying to think of further liberal examples, and I think some references to “human rights” might qualify—for example, “health care is a human right”. The meaning of “human right” that allows us to assert this seems very poorly defined, whereas the meaning of “human right” that allows us to say that negative rights like free speech are human rights seems well-defined, even though I don’t agree with it. So calling health care (or housing, or something) a “human right” might be a way of trying to claim that we should view health care as exactly like free speech, free religion, etc, even though it is quite different in that it requires positive action by other people.
I’m not quite willing to include that one just because the total ambiguity in the definition of “human right” makes it pretty hard to pin down exactly how the argument is being made.
EDIT: Just saw “Property is theft” has 15 upvotes. Do people think this one should be added?
“Human rights” are poorly defined, but I guess the closer we have to a formal definition of them is Universal Declaration of Human Rights which does include health care and right to education at the same level than free speech or fair trial.
But I agree it’s a very poor defense of universal healthcare, the UDHR is a political document that can carry weight of authority, but it doesn’t make something ethical or unethical by itself. The only way I use the UDHR in a political discussion is with a reasoning like « UDHR includes right to healthcare, and UDHR was accepted by most countries of the planet, so it’s not a completely lunatic position. Now, please stop your authority arguments like “the only natural rights are freedom and ownership” and listen to my actual arguments for universal healthcare, and I’ll listen to your real ones against it », which doesn’t in itself justify healthcare, but can help giving me at least a chance to expose my arguments.
So this may be more complicated than I thought, in that all of the examples below seem really bad to me, but that might just be an example of my personal bias. I think if any of them get, let’s say, more than ten upvotes I’ll assume they’re generally agreed to be a good argument and I’ll put them in—does that sound like a reasonable bar? That means upvote them if you think they’re worthy of inclusion.
I was trying to think of further liberal examples, and I think some references to “human rights” might qualify—for example, “health care is a human right”. The meaning of “human right” that allows us to assert this seems very poorly defined, whereas the meaning of “human right” that allows us to say that negative rights like free speech are human rights seems well-defined, even though I don’t agree with it. So calling health care (or housing, or something) a “human right” might be a way of trying to claim that we should view health care as exactly like free speech, free religion, etc, even though it is quite different in that it requires positive action by other people.
I’m not quite willing to include that one just because the total ambiguity in the definition of “human right” makes it pretty hard to pin down exactly how the argument is being made.
EDIT: Just saw “Property is theft” has 15 upvotes. Do people think this one should be added?
I’m not fond of any, either. See if you can find something you like here.
“Human rights” are poorly defined, but I guess the closer we have to a formal definition of them is Universal Declaration of Human Rights which does include health care and right to education at the same level than free speech or fair trial.
But I agree it’s a very poor defense of universal healthcare, the UDHR is a political document that can carry weight of authority, but it doesn’t make something ethical or unethical by itself. The only way I use the UDHR in a political discussion is with a reasoning like « UDHR includes right to healthcare, and UDHR was accepted by most countries of the planet, so it’s not a completely lunatic position. Now, please stop your authority arguments like “the only natural rights are freedom and ownership” and listen to my actual arguments for universal healthcare, and I’ll listen to your real ones against it », which doesn’t in itself justify healthcare, but can help giving me at least a chance to expose my arguments.