going away from the discussion is still grounds to condemn me
I find with certain types of people, particularly those inclined towards judgement and control, this going away can prompt the most vigorous condemnation—at least while they are in vocalization range. It is taking their perceived power over you away from them. Fortunately this approach has the side effect that once out of earshot they are condemning you somewhere you don’t have to listen to them!
Fortunately this approach has the side effect that once out of earshot they are condemning you somewhere you don’t have to listen to them!
So, so true. I used to think it was the “least bad” / optimal choice until I figured out that it was much more Fun™ to just mess with them (and/or break their mind, if you’re so inclined).
So, so true. I used to think it was the “least bad” / optimal choice until I figured out that it was much more Fun™ to just mess with them (and/or break their mind, if you’re so inclined).
You have more patience than I.
Courtesy note to others for DaFranker’s benefit: the parent was (probably) written in response to a version of the grandparent that contained only the final sentence. “So, so true” would best be interpreted as applying only to the second (and more important) of the two points I made.
I’ve also often noted, watching certain types of people responding this way to third parties disengaging, that the vigorous condemnation is frequently dropped as soon as the party is no longer in earshot.
Perhaps unrelatedly, I’m told the same thing is often true of small children throwing tantrums.
I’ve also often noted, watching certain types of people responding this way to third parties disengaging, that the vigorous condemnation is frequently dropped as soon as the party is no longer in earshot.
That’s good to know. I wasn’t there to hear (the instances from the same class that I have experienced in an entirely different part of the world) and directly inquiring usually seems crass.
Perhaps unrelatedly, I’m told the same thing is often true of small children throwing tantrums.
Perhaps unrelated, yes, but do either of us really think them being unrelated is likely? I model them as more or less the same social move.
Cf earlier comment about mixing your Ask-culture specificity with my Hint-culture ambiguity. Two great tastes that, well...
I may have missed your earlier comment. I implement Ask-culture? That’s not something I would identify with. I seems to find some aspects of “Ask-culture” appropriate in some situations but definitely not in others. In fact, a the main times I have seen “Ask-culture” described explicitly the prescribed practices made me viscerally squeamish a the awkwardness and inappropriateness involved.
By the way, I wouldn’t have said the quoted excerpt contained much in the way of “ask culture” at all. The question is entirely rhetorical, albeit not the stereotypical “Rhetorical Question(TM)” kind of persuasion tool. Question mark aside there isn’t any actual asking going on. It just equivalent to the overt declaration “I agree with what you are hinting at you and feel like explaining the concepts without technically violating violating the ‘hint’ role-play”. So it is certainly being specific but I’d actually call it a violation of ask-culture principles. (I must admit I’m no expert on what ask-culture is so if my impression of what ask-culture is is invalid my conclusion that this doesn’t qualify could be wrong.)
The comment I’m referring to is here. It was a rather specialized context, and somewhat tongue-in-cheek to boot, as was this reference to it.
Ahh, that kind of ‘earlier’. I remember the exchange. There is certainly a -culture difference regarding specificity, even if there doesn’t seem to be much ‘asking’ going on on the wedrifid side of things.
The thing with ‘tongue-in-cheek’ is that in <wedrifid’s>-culture recognizing that something is tongue in cheek doesn’t entail an obligation not to make a straight up reply, nor does it prohibit tongue-in-cheek responses. In fact, it encourages both at once if possible. Unfortunately my creativity doesn’t suggest any such reply that would fit in this case (the potential ironies are one inferential step too long to fit).
I endorse the lack of an obligation not to make a straight-up reply
Hearing that spoken back I wish it used words with a much more subtle and mild connotation that ‘obligation’. Unfortunately none sprang to mind either then or now. “Expectation” didn’t quite fit either. I mean that thing where the natural flow of the conversation makes a certain kind of response seem like it is the thing that fits.
I find with certain types of people, particularly those inclined towards judgement and control, this going away can prompt the most vigorous condemnation—at least while they are in vocalization range. It is taking their perceived power over you away from them. Fortunately this approach has the side effect that once out of earshot they are condemning you somewhere you don’t have to listen to them!
So, so true. I used to think it was the “least bad” / optimal choice until I figured out that it was much more Fun™ to just mess with them (and/or break their mind, if you’re so inclined).
You have more patience than I.
Courtesy note to others for DaFranker’s benefit: the parent was (probably) written in response to a version of the grandparent that contained only the final sentence. “So, so true” would best be interpreted as applying only to the second (and more important) of the two points I made.
I’ve also often noted, watching certain types of people responding this way to third parties disengaging, that the vigorous condemnation is frequently dropped as soon as the party is no longer in earshot.
Perhaps unrelatedly, I’m told the same thing is often true of small children throwing tantrums.
That’s good to know. I wasn’t there to hear (the instances from the same class that I have experienced in an entirely different part of the world) and directly inquiring usually seems crass.
Perhaps unrelated, yes, but do either of us really think them being unrelated is likely? I model them as more or less the same social move.
Cf earlier comment about mixing your Ask-culture specificity with my Hint-culture ambiguity. Two great tastes that, well...
I may have missed your earlier comment. I implement Ask-culture? That’s not something I would identify with. I seems to find some aspects of “Ask-culture” appropriate in some situations but definitely not in others. In fact, a the main times I have seen “Ask-culture” described explicitly the prescribed practices made me viscerally squeamish a the awkwardness and inappropriateness involved.
By the way, I wouldn’t have said the quoted excerpt contained much in the way of “ask culture” at all. The question is entirely rhetorical, albeit not the stereotypical “Rhetorical Question(TM)” kind of persuasion tool. Question mark aside there isn’t any actual asking going on. It just equivalent to the overt declaration “I agree with what you are hinting at you and feel like explaining the concepts without technically violating violating the ‘hint’ role-play”. So it is certainly being specific but I’d actually call it a violation of ask-culture principles. (I must admit I’m no expert on what ask-culture is so if my impression of what ask-culture is is invalid my conclusion that this doesn’t qualify could be wrong.)
The comment I’m referring to is here. It was a rather specialized context, and somewhat tongue-in-cheek to boot, as was this reference to it.
Ahh, that kind of ‘earlier’. I remember the exchange. There is certainly a -culture difference regarding specificity, even if there doesn’t seem to be much ‘asking’ going on on the wedrifid side of things.
The thing with ‘tongue-in-cheek’ is that in <wedrifid’s>-culture recognizing that something is tongue in cheek doesn’t entail an obligation not to make a straight up reply, nor does it prohibit tongue-in-cheek responses. In fact, it encourages both at once if possible. Unfortunately my creativity doesn’t suggest any such reply that would fit in this case (the potential ironies are one inferential step too long to fit).
(nods) I endorse the lack of an obligation not to make a straight-up reply. (Also, that sentence should be taken out and shot.)
Hearing that spoken back I wish it used words with a much more subtle and mild connotation that ‘obligation’. Unfortunately none sprang to mind either then or now. “Expectation” didn’t quite fit either. I mean that thing where the natural flow of the conversation makes a certain kind of response seem like it is the thing that fits.
“norm”? “convention”?
“Cue”? Or “obligation of a certain X-culture heuristic where that X-culture is itself not obligatory”.