I realize that we want to get rid of trolls, and I agree that this is a worthy goal, but one single person shouldn’t be in charge of deciding who’s a troll and who isn’t.
Now that everyone knows that downvotes can cause a person to lose their ability to comment (I assume that’s what “ban” means, could be wrong though), unscrupulous community members (and we must have some, statistically speaking, as unpleasant as that thought is) can use their downvotes offensively—sort of like painting a target with a laser, allowing the Eliezer-nuke to home in.
Downvoting a comment does not always imply that the commenter is a troll. People also use downvotes to express things like “your argument is weak and unconvincing”, and “I disagree with you strongly”. We want to discourage the latter usage, and IMO we should encourage the former, but Eliezer’s new policy does nothing to achieve these goals, and in fact harms them.
If the problem is differentiating between trolls and simply weak, airy, or badly formed comments/arguments, I think the obvious simple solution would be to do what has worked elsewhere and add a “Report” or “Troll-Alert” option to bring the comment/post to the attention of moderators or send it to a community-review queue.
It certainly seems easier to control for abuse of a Report feature than to control for trolling and troll-feeding using a single linear score that doesn’t even tell you whether that −2 is just 2 * (-1) (two people think the poster is evil) or whether it’s +5 −7 (five cultists approve, seven rationalists think it’s a troll) (unless moderators can see a breakdown of this?).
There is a Report button when I view comments that are replies to my comments, or when I view private messages. There is no Report button when I view comments normally.
Oh, you’re right! Didn’t remember that, but the inbox does have “Context” and “Report” links instead of the standard buttons.
Edit: I suppose a clever bit of scripting could probably fix it browser-side, then, but that’s a very hacky solution and there’s still value in having a built-in report button for, say, people who don’t have the script or often access lesswrong from different browsers/computers.
See Issue 272. The report button was removed during a past redesign, as (I gather) redesigners didn’t feel it was motivated sufficiently to bother preserving it. The issue’s been in accepted/contributions-welcome mode since Sep 2011.
I agree that there are downsides, they just don’t seem that terrible..
What about the never-ending meta discussions, or are you counting on those dying down soon? Because I wouldn’t, unless the new policy is either dropped, or an extensive purge of the commentariat is carried out.
I dislike this solution, for several reasons.
I realize that we want to get rid of trolls, and I agree that this is a worthy goal, but one single person shouldn’t be in charge of deciding who’s a troll and who isn’t.
Now that everyone knows that downvotes can cause a person to lose their ability to comment (I assume that’s what “ban” means, could be wrong though), unscrupulous community members (and we must have some, statistically speaking, as unpleasant as that thought is) can use their downvotes offensively—sort of like painting a target with a laser, allowing the Eliezer-nuke to home in.
Downvoting a comment does not always imply that the commenter is a troll. People also use downvotes to express things like “your argument is weak and unconvincing”, and “I disagree with you strongly”. We want to discourage the latter usage, and IMO we should encourage the former, but Eliezer’s new policy does nothing to achieve these goals, and in fact harms them.
If the problem is differentiating between trolls and simply weak, airy, or badly formed comments/arguments, I think the obvious simple solution would be to do what has worked elsewhere and add a “Report” or “Troll-Alert” option to bring the comment/post to the attention of moderators or send it to a community-review queue.
It certainly seems easier to control for abuse of a Report feature than to control for trolling and troll-feeding using a single linear score that doesn’t even tell you whether that −2 is just 2 * (-1) (two people think the poster is evil) or whether it’s +5 −7 (five cultists approve, seven rationalists think it’s a troll) (unless moderators can see a breakdown of this?).
Do you not see a Report button? There at least used to be one; I can’t see because I only see a Ban button.
There is a Report button when I view comments that are replies to my comments, or when I view private messages.
There is no Report button when I view comments normally.
Oh, you’re right! Didn’t remember that, but the inbox does have “Context” and “Report” links instead of the standard buttons.
Edit: I suppose a clever bit of scripting could probably fix it browser-side, then, but that’s a very hacky solution and there’s still value in having a built-in report button for, say, people who don’t have the script or often access lesswrong from different browsers/computers.
I do not see a Report button.
See Issue 272. The report button was removed during a past redesign, as (I gather) redesigners didn’t feel it was motivated sufficiently to bother preserving it. The issue’s been in accepted/contributions-welcome mode since Sep 2011.
Okay, if there’s no longer a Report button, I at least am willing to field PMs from people who think I should consider banning specific comments.
Nope, no report button here. Upvote/downvote on the left, Parent/Reply/Permalink on the right (+Edit/Retract when own posts).
I see no such button, FWIW.
There are several moderators, I don’t think Eliezer is the most active.
It doesn’t, “ban” just means the comment is hidden.
I agree that there are downsides, they just don’t seem that terrible..
I am aware of this, but Eliezer came off as being particularly invested in personally combating people whom he perceives as trolls.
Ah, I stand corrected then, thanks for the info.
What about the never-ending meta discussions, or are you counting on those dying down soon? Because I wouldn’t, unless the new policy is either dropped, or an extensive purge of the commentariat is carried out.