In regards to the nearly empty vial left in Bellatrix’s cell:
Back when we first saw the flask, I remember there being confusion over the point of leaving something foreign behind what was supposed to be “the perfect crime.” It definitely came in handy once they were found out, but it didn’t make sense to leave it behind when there was a serious possibility that they could have gotten away with it. I was thinking about the arc the other day when it (belatedly) occurred to me just what Quirrell might have been thinking.
Just before this point, we are told that in the MOR-verse, a prisoner stays in Azkaban until their sentence is up, even if they die. For those with life sentences, their corpse stays there until they need the cell. Furthermore, snake!Quirrell confirms that she’s alone, and thus is the only live prisoner in her particular area. Therefore, it would be reasonable to say that after Bellatrix died, the Aurors would stop frequenting that particular area until the next time someone who does “worse than murder” needs to be locked up. Even then, it’s possible that there are other empty cells, or (more likely) that the guards dispose of the older corpses first, for the symbolism if nothing else. So it seems probable that even after the guards return to frequenting that corridor, Bellatrix’s cell would probably be left alone the longest.
Additionally, much ado has been made over the destructive powers that Dementors have on their surroundings. And Bellatrix, being considered the most evil person in Magical Britain after Voldemort “died,” is in the very worst location, in close proximity to the nest of over a hundred Dementors.
Moreover, Dumbledore makes a point of stating that the titanium bars of the cage of the Dementor that is brought to Hogwarts were trueforged, since they would last longer than if they were created magically. He also notes that while the Dementor would start to degrade the cage, it would take longer than a day, possibly implying that the destructive field is strong enough to make the destruction of titanium within the course of a few hours a serious concern.
All of this leads me to believe that Quirrell’s reasoning was that if they had managed to pull off the perfect crime, the guards would have discovered “Bellatrix” dead from Dementor exposure in the morning. I don’t see the guards investigating a cell very carefully—or at all, really—when a prisoner dies in such a natural way, so the vial being put in the corner and covered in the strip of cloth that “nearly blend[ed]” in with the wall would keep them from noticing that anything was amiss in a cursory glance. After that, the cell would have been left alone for a long period of time, very near to the majority of Dementors, with the flask possibly being magically created as well. In all likelihood, this would have resulted in there being no traces whatsoever by the time anyone else would have entered the cell, preserving the perfection of the crime.
And if the crime wasn’t as perfect as Quirrell thought? Then they have a clue left behind, one with all the earmarks of Voldemort, neatly diverting suspicion away from Harry.
It took you long enough, but you are still to be congratulated on having realized it before most.
Unfortunetly, like the rest, you’re still stuck thinking it was a mere distraction. Ask yourself, what happened as a result? Who’s plan benefited from it? Was it foreseeable?
Harry is still too young, his magic is still weak. He will need some more time before he can be the Hero and Leader Dumbledore and Quirrell wants him to become.
Suppose the rescue plan goes flawlessly. No one would be the wiser, until the time some Bellatrix-sightings or something similar casts doubt on her death. Once her cell is investigated (if enough of her clothes remained to cover her after ten years, the vial would last long enough too), the same thing would have happened, Dumbledore soundig the alarms, and people turning to Harry Potter to save them.
That was the plan, anyways. It succeeded the moment the vial was placed in the cell, so long as they got out without being identified. And it’s only a minor inconvenience that it had to happen early.
It’s difficult to see only if you think Quirrell lied about wanting Harry as a leader.
That’s an interesting idea. However, I think that you may be missing a couple of issues.
For one, if the implication that magically created objects are more susceptible to the Dementors’ aura of destruction is sound, then the vial could easily degrade before the clothes, especially if it was designed to disappear quickly (e.g. hyper-thin glass, or made of something even more fragile than glass).
You do make a good point about the clothes, but honestly, that makes me question why she still had her original clothes at all. When the Dementor was taken to Hogwarts, it was wearing a cloak that was new that morning, but is tattered by the time the students practiced their Patroni on it. Very close proximity to one Dementor did that in hours, why does she still have her original clothes after a decade of being in rather close proximity to dozens of Dementors? The intensity of the aura could fade quite sharply relative to distance, I suppose, but if it weakened that quickly I don’t think it would be the issue that much of the story makes it seem to be. The only explanation that leaps to mind quickly is that they make several copies of an inmate’s clothes when they enter, and replace them as the old pair wears out. It would keep them from having to bother about making clothes themselves, and be consistent with the story. Though, if the clothes are copied magically, it seems that they’d wear out quickly as well…perhaps they preserve the original and make dozens of copies, but overall it seems like a reach.
It might also be that while a Dementor’s emotional drain is more or less unaffected by physical barriers (is this true? I think it is, but I can’t seem to find anything that points in either direction) their destruction aura is not, thus the color was leeched from the clothing but they stayed more or less intact. This seems at least as plausible, and supports your argument about the flask.
In an aside, if the cloaks aren’t an integral part of the Dementors, how do they always have enough cloaks for more than a hundred of them? It seems like when they are around the others, they should have to replace their robes several times a day. And if magically created objects disappear more quickly…but I digress.
But the biggest obstacle in the way of your theory, I think, is Harry. Harry knew that they were trying to commit the perfect crime, and did not know that Quirrell was grooming him to be a leader for everyone to turn to. What would Harry have thought about leaving the flask, then? It’s quite possible that Quirrell told him essentially what I just posted, that it would disappear without a trace, but that means that Harry thought that it was something that would be gone in a couple of years, when it wasn’t. Absolutely no mention was made of what the vial was made of, meaning that it was considered trivial, and therefore normal. [edit: I was referring to Dumbledore et all. If it was some exotic material, it’s reasonable it wouldn’t have been mentioned from Harry’s POV, but in the discussion afterwards it certainly would have been.] So unless Harry thought that the flask was magically created and it was actually trueblown (as I assume it would be called with glass), I don’t see a way around that.
So in summary, it looks like your thought is quite possible, but I’m not completely convinced that it is what actually occurred.
… they make several copies of an inmate’s clothes when they enter, and replace them as the old pair wears out.
With respect, it sounds like you’re clinging to your theory. A much simpler explanation is the effect significantly decreasing over distance. Also the effect on living prisoners body is psychological, wasting away, not physical, like corrosion or decomposition.
What would Harry have thought about leaving the flask, then?
Harry? You mean Harry “the Defense Professor of Hogwarts was all like ‘Let’s get Bellatrix Black out of Azkaban!’ and you were like ‘Okay!’” Potter? As I recall he was busy pretending to be Voldemort in front of Bellatrix, and afterwards busy angsting over the loss his mentor. I don’t see his lack of fussing over details as a strong reason to conclude anything.
With respect, it sounds like you’re clinging to your theory.
I did say that I thought it was a reach.
As for distance, she’s at the bottom of Azkaban, directly adjacent to the Dementor nest. There really isn’t much distance there at all. Physical barriers, on the other hand, there are. As I mentioned above. Notice the part where I said “this theory is supported by the story and supports your idea”?
And the effect on living prisoners was what I was referring to when I mentioned the emotional draining.
I don’t see his lack of fussing over details as a strong reason to conclude anything.
You’re assuming he didn’t know about the flask beforehand. I’m assuming that he
had to have, to have reacted the way he did (ie, not at all).
Just because Harry has made mistakes doesn’t mean he’s a moron.
Seems to me Quirrell gets all the same benefits without the vial. As soon as he stages a Bellatrix-sighting or whatever, Moody will arrange for her body to be carefully examined, and the deception will be uncovered. Cue Dumbledore sounding the alarms, etc.
Even assuming it’s possible to tell the difference between a few years old rotting corpse and a few years old rotting death doll (magic might help there), Dementors don’t care about the dead, and a powerful enough wizard can easily sneak into Azkaban to replace a corpse. Finding a fake corpse in Bellatrix’s cell would be a mystery, another conspiracy theory, not a sure signature of Voldemort. It might not convince anyone. Why settle for half-solutions?
Yes, I’m assuming that someone actively looking for signs of deception would eventually determine that “Bellatrix” was a deathdoll, especially if the wizard who created the doll intended them to. That seems pretty likely.
As for being convincing… well, unknown agents breaking Bellatrix out of jail with the vial isn’t a sure sign of Voldemort, either, but it didn’t have to be: Dumbledore inferred, entirely sensibly, that the expected disutility of Voldemort’s return given the probability of it conditioned on someone breaking Bellatrix out of Azkaban was high enough to be worth sounding the alarm.
Perhaps you’re right that Quirrell wasn’t confident that Dumbledore (or Moody) would perform the same calculation without the vial. But it seems unlikely to me.
In regards to the nearly empty vial left in Bellatrix’s cell:
Back when we first saw the flask, I remember there being confusion over the point of leaving something foreign behind what was supposed to be “the perfect crime.” It definitely came in handy once they were found out, but it didn’t make sense to leave it behind when there was a serious possibility that they could have gotten away with it. I was thinking about the arc the other day when it (belatedly) occurred to me just what Quirrell might have been thinking.
Just before this point, we are told that in the MOR-verse, a prisoner stays in Azkaban until their sentence is up, even if they die. For those with life sentences, their corpse stays there until they need the cell. Furthermore, snake!Quirrell confirms that she’s alone, and thus is the only live prisoner in her particular area. Therefore, it would be reasonable to say that after Bellatrix died, the Aurors would stop frequenting that particular area until the next time someone who does “worse than murder” needs to be locked up. Even then, it’s possible that there are other empty cells, or (more likely) that the guards dispose of the older corpses first, for the symbolism if nothing else. So it seems probable that even after the guards return to frequenting that corridor, Bellatrix’s cell would probably be left alone the longest.
Additionally, much ado has been made over the destructive powers that Dementors have on their surroundings. And Bellatrix, being considered the most evil person in Magical Britain after Voldemort “died,” is in the very worst location, in close proximity to the nest of over a hundred Dementors.
Moreover, Dumbledore makes a point of stating that the titanium bars of the cage of the Dementor that is brought to Hogwarts were trueforged, since they would last longer than if they were created magically. He also notes that while the Dementor would start to degrade the cage, it would take longer than a day, possibly implying that the destructive field is strong enough to make the destruction of titanium within the course of a few hours a serious concern.
All of this leads me to believe that Quirrell’s reasoning was that if they had managed to pull off the perfect crime, the guards would have discovered “Bellatrix” dead from Dementor exposure in the morning. I don’t see the guards investigating a cell very carefully—or at all, really—when a prisoner dies in such a natural way, so the vial being put in the corner and covered in the strip of cloth that “nearly blend[ed]” in with the wall would keep them from noticing that anything was amiss in a cursory glance. After that, the cell would have been left alone for a long period of time, very near to the majority of Dementors, with the flask possibly being magically created as well. In all likelihood, this would have resulted in there being no traces whatsoever by the time anyone else would have entered the cell, preserving the perfection of the crime.
And if the crime wasn’t as perfect as Quirrell thought? Then they have a clue left behind, one with all the earmarks of Voldemort, neatly diverting suspicion away from Harry.
It took you long enough, but you are still to be congratulated on having realized it before most.
Unfortunetly, like the rest, you’re still stuck thinking it was a mere distraction. Ask yourself, what happened as a result? Who’s plan benefited from it? Was it foreseeable?
Harry is still too young, his magic is still weak. He will need some more time before he can be the Hero and Leader Dumbledore and Quirrell wants him to become.
Suppose the rescue plan goes flawlessly. No one would be the wiser, until the time some Bellatrix-sightings or something similar casts doubt on her death. Once her cell is investigated (if enough of her clothes remained to cover her after ten years, the vial would last long enough too), the same thing would have happened, Dumbledore soundig the alarms, and people turning to Harry Potter to save them.
That was the plan, anyways. It succeeded the moment the vial was placed in the cell, so long as they got out without being identified. And it’s only a minor inconvenience that it had to happen early.
It’s difficult to see only if you think Quirrell lied about wanting Harry as a leader.
That’s an interesting idea. However, I think that you may be missing a couple of issues.
For one, if the implication that magically created objects are more susceptible to the Dementors’ aura of destruction is sound, then the vial could easily degrade before the clothes, especially if it was designed to disappear quickly (e.g. hyper-thin glass, or made of something even more fragile than glass).
You do make a good point about the clothes, but honestly, that makes me question why she still had her original clothes at all. When the Dementor was taken to Hogwarts, it was wearing a cloak that was new that morning, but is tattered by the time the students practiced their Patroni on it. Very close proximity to one Dementor did that in hours, why does she still have her original clothes after a decade of being in rather close proximity to dozens of Dementors? The intensity of the aura could fade quite sharply relative to distance, I suppose, but if it weakened that quickly I don’t think it would be the issue that much of the story makes it seem to be. The only explanation that leaps to mind quickly is that they make several copies of an inmate’s clothes when they enter, and replace them as the old pair wears out. It would keep them from having to bother about making clothes themselves, and be consistent with the story. Though, if the clothes are copied magically, it seems that they’d wear out quickly as well…perhaps they preserve the original and make dozens of copies, but overall it seems like a reach.
It might also be that while a Dementor’s emotional drain is more or less unaffected by physical barriers (is this true? I think it is, but I can’t seem to find anything that points in either direction) their destruction aura is not, thus the color was leeched from the clothing but they stayed more or less intact. This seems at least as plausible, and supports your argument about the flask.
In an aside, if the cloaks aren’t an integral part of the Dementors, how do they always have enough cloaks for more than a hundred of them? It seems like when they are around the others, they should have to replace their robes several times a day. And if magically created objects disappear more quickly…but I digress.
But the biggest obstacle in the way of your theory, I think, is Harry. Harry knew that they were trying to commit the perfect crime, and did not know that Quirrell was grooming him to be a leader for everyone to turn to. What would Harry have thought about leaving the flask, then? It’s quite possible that Quirrell told him essentially what I just posted, that it would disappear without a trace, but that means that Harry thought that it was something that would be gone in a couple of years, when it wasn’t. Absolutely no mention was made of what the vial was made of, meaning that it was considered trivial, and therefore normal. [edit: I was referring to Dumbledore et all. If it was some exotic material, it’s reasonable it wouldn’t have been mentioned from Harry’s POV, but in the discussion afterwards it certainly would have been.] So unless Harry thought that the flask was magically created and it was actually trueblown (as I assume it would be called with glass), I don’t see a way around that.
So in summary, it looks like your thought is quite possible, but I’m not completely convinced that it is what actually occurred.
With respect, it sounds like you’re clinging to your theory. A much simpler explanation is the effect significantly decreasing over distance. Also the effect on living prisoners body is psychological, wasting away, not physical, like corrosion or decomposition.
Harry? You mean Harry “the Defense Professor of Hogwarts was all like ‘Let’s get Bellatrix Black out of Azkaban!’ and you were like ‘Okay!’” Potter? As I recall he was busy pretending to be Voldemort in front of Bellatrix, and afterwards busy angsting over the loss his mentor. I don’t see his lack of fussing over details as a strong reason to conclude anything.
I did say that I thought it was a reach.
As for distance, she’s at the bottom of Azkaban, directly adjacent to the Dementor nest. There really isn’t much distance there at all. Physical barriers, on the other hand, there are. As I mentioned above. Notice the part where I said “this theory is supported by the story and supports your idea”?
And the effect on living prisoners was what I was referring to when I mentioned the emotional draining.
You’re assuming he didn’t know about the flask beforehand. I’m assuming that he had to have, to have reacted the way he did (ie, not at all).
Just because Harry has made mistakes doesn’t mean he’s a moron.
Seems to me Quirrell gets all the same benefits without the vial. As soon as he stages a Bellatrix-sighting or whatever, Moody will arrange for her body to be carefully examined, and the deception will be uncovered. Cue Dumbledore sounding the alarms, etc.
Even assuming it’s possible to tell the difference between a few years old rotting corpse and a few years old rotting death doll (magic might help there), Dementors don’t care about the dead, and a powerful enough wizard can easily sneak into Azkaban to replace a corpse. Finding a fake corpse in Bellatrix’s cell would be a mystery, another conspiracy theory, not a sure signature of Voldemort. It might not convince anyone. Why settle for half-solutions?
Yes, I’m assuming that someone actively looking for signs of deception would eventually determine that “Bellatrix” was a deathdoll, especially if the wizard who created the doll intended them to. That seems pretty likely.
As for being convincing… well, unknown agents breaking Bellatrix out of jail with the vial isn’t a sure sign of Voldemort, either, but it didn’t have to be: Dumbledore inferred, entirely sensibly, that the expected disutility of Voldemort’s return given the probability of it conditioned on someone breaking Bellatrix out of Azkaban was high enough to be worth sounding the alarm.
Perhaps you’re right that Quirrell wasn’t confident that Dumbledore (or Moody) would perform the same calculation without the vial. But it seems unlikely to me.