In some attacks it’s okay to hold of on proposing solutions. In others, it’s not. Presumably, there actually are some bad people in Azkaban, and not just, say, people responsible for an accidental death. Before Harry destroys the prison, he needs to think carefully about what is to become of these people.
What’s required of a maximum security wizard prison? You clearly need to subdue any magical powers which would allow the prisoners to revolt or escape. At a minimum then, confiscate wands and put up anti-Disapparition charms. This might not be enough, as in canon it’s possible to perform magic without a wand. Voldemort was able to terrorize the other orphans by “hand-to-hand” magical means before he had even been introduced to wand-based magic! So what else can you do? You could Somnium prisoners for the duration of their sentence, but this seems both inhumane and ineffective as a means of punishment (if that’s actually a goal of imprisonment).
We don’t really know enough to say to what degree it’s possible to subdue a wizard’s magical powers without bringing in the Dementors. If Dementors are just a reification of the fear of death, perhaps you could terrorize the prisoners in some manner as to achieve a similar effect. This would be unacceptable from Harry’s point of view. In canon, we see that some people’s magical abilities diminish due to heartbreak (Tonks and possibly Tom Riddle’s mother). It might be possible to exploit this phenomenon somehow, but then again it could fail to work on psychopathic prisoners.
Given what we don’t know, it’s possible that all solutions to this problem are inhumane (i.e. the only way to suppress magical ability is by trauma). We don’t live in the HP:MoR universe, so we can’t do much research on the possibilities, but Harry should!
EDIT: The thought occurred that you could transfigure the prisoners into Muggles. Could be possible, but only for short periods of time (and may require at least a 1-1 ratio of guards to prisoners).
What’s the purpose of imprisonment in the first place?
To guard the society from criminals.
To punish the criminals (revenge on the behalf of the relatives/victims).
To redeem the criminals (so that they don’t commit another crime).
The way Harry’s been acting, seems like he’d strongly prioritize #3 over the other two. And considering that he didn’t hold too much of a grudge against Draco for gom jabar’ing him, and believed that Bellatrix can be turned back into an okay human being, it seems like he would want to devise some sort of a method to redeem criminals.
And thanks, TobyBartels, for noticing my circular vocabulary issue.
I’m pretty sure that one of the common purposes of punishment is to make the people who are imposing it feel better. This may or may not be a glitch by some utilitarian standards.
Further, it is worth breaking up (2. Revenge) into two parts:
To deter other criminals.
So that you are the kind of person that other criminals, given mind reading instincts far more advanced than your ability to adapt your emotional responses, would not have f@#ed with in the first place.
I should think that wandless magic, while possible, is at least far less powerful than wanded; presumably with that advantage, as well as anti-Disapparition jinxes, and perhaps other pre-cast defensive spells, a competent Auror should be able to hold and defeat any wizard. It might well be possible, for instance, to have an ongoing magic-triggered overpowered Somnium enchantment cast on the prison, that ignores the wands of specifically keyed-in wizards. Or something.
I don’t see putting the wizards to sleep for the duration of their sentence as at all inhumane, just very ineffective punishment.
It shouldn’t be necessary to suppress magical ability beyond taking away prisoners wands as long as there are magical defenses in place that are beyond their ability to break.
I don’t think transfiguring prisoners into muggles is possible. You might be able to transfigure them into animals (using non-free transfiguration; canon suggests this is possible although in MoR it might not be) and put them in containers that would be beyond the extent of wandless magic to escape from, but that would also be rather inhumane, and probably unnecessary.
I don’t see putting the wizards to sleep for the duration of their sentence as at all inhumane, just very ineffective punishment.
Perhaps not as effective as current punishments, but being Rip Van Winkle is still a bad situation to be in—especially if it’s intended as a punishment, as then not much will be done to help you!
Help in what sense? It wouldn’t be much use as far as rehabilitation goes, but neither are most prisons, and Azkaban is certainly worse. In terms of visitations or breakout attempts, what would be the point?
If they don’t help to reintegrate you, then you’re more likely to reoffend. Even in Kentucky, they give you five dollars, a suit of clothes, and a bus ticket home.
In some attacks it’s okay to hold of on proposing solutions. In others, it’s not. Presumably, there actually are some bad people in Azkaban, and not just, say, people responsible for an accidental death. Before Harry destroys the prison, he needs to think carefully about what is to become of these people.
What’s required of a maximum security wizard prison? You clearly need to subdue any magical powers which would allow the prisoners to revolt or escape. At a minimum then, confiscate wands and put up anti-Disapparition charms. This might not be enough, as in canon it’s possible to perform magic without a wand. Voldemort was able to terrorize the other orphans by “hand-to-hand” magical means before he had even been introduced to wand-based magic! So what else can you do? You could Somnium prisoners for the duration of their sentence, but this seems both inhumane and ineffective as a means of punishment (if that’s actually a goal of imprisonment).
We don’t really know enough to say to what degree it’s possible to subdue a wizard’s magical powers without bringing in the Dementors. If Dementors are just a reification of the fear of death, perhaps you could terrorize the prisoners in some manner as to achieve a similar effect. This would be unacceptable from Harry’s point of view. In canon, we see that some people’s magical abilities diminish due to heartbreak (Tonks and possibly Tom Riddle’s mother). It might be possible to exploit this phenomenon somehow, but then again it could fail to work on psychopathic prisoners.
Given what we don’t know, it’s possible that all solutions to this problem are inhumane (i.e. the only way to suppress magical ability is by trauma). We don’t live in the HP:MoR universe, so we can’t do much research on the possibilities, but Harry should!
EDIT: The thought occurred that you could transfigure the prisoners into Muggles. Could be possible, but only for short periods of time (and may require at least a 1-1 ratio of guards to prisoners).
Allow the worst prisoners to choose between Askaban, taking an unbreakable vow not to escape the normal prison and execution.
Good idea. But this effectively makes failing to “go quietly” punishable by death.
Replace execution with Somnium. That way, people who prefer death over imprisonment can be revived if they are later exonerated.
What’s the purpose of imprisonment in the first place?
To guard the society from criminals.
To punish the criminals (revenge on the behalf of the relatives/victims).
To redeem the criminals (so that they don’t commit another crime).
The way Harry’s been acting, seems like he’d strongly prioritize #3 over the other two. And considering that he didn’t hold too much of a grudge against Draco for gom jabar’ing him, and believed that Bellatrix can be turned back into an okay human being, it seems like he would want to devise some sort of a method to redeem criminals.
And thanks, TobyBartels, for noticing my circular vocabulary issue.
[Obsolete material has been moved to the bottom.]
It’s worth breaking (1) up into two parts:
To keep those specific criminals from harming society.
To deter other criminals.
None of this affects your main point much: that in any case #3 is very important to Harry. (So I vote you up regardless.)
[Obsolete material follows.]
You ask what’s the purpose of punishment, and one of your answers is punishment. I have two hypotheses towards what you actually meant:
and
Did you mean one of these, and if so then which?
I’m pretty sure that one of the common purposes of punishment is to make the people who are imposing it feel better. This may or may not be a glitch by some utilitarian standards.
This is what I meant by ‘revenge’, although wedifrid (in your comment’s sibling) seems to have interpreted that differently.
Further, it is worth breaking up (2. Revenge) into two parts:
To deter other criminals.
So that you are the kind of person that other criminals, given mind reading instincts far more advanced than your ability to adapt your emotional responses, would not have f@#ed with in the first place.
I should think that wandless magic, while possible, is at least far less powerful than wanded; presumably with that advantage, as well as anti-Disapparition jinxes, and perhaps other pre-cast defensive spells, a competent Auror should be able to hold and defeat any wizard. It might well be possible, for instance, to have an ongoing magic-triggered overpowered Somnium enchantment cast on the prison, that ignores the wands of specifically keyed-in wizards. Or something.
I don’t see putting the wizards to sleep for the duration of their sentence as at all inhumane, just very ineffective punishment.
It shouldn’t be necessary to suppress magical ability beyond taking away prisoners wands as long as there are magical defenses in place that are beyond their ability to break.
I don’t think transfiguring prisoners into muggles is possible. You might be able to transfigure them into animals (using non-free transfiguration; canon suggests this is possible although in MoR it might not be) and put them in containers that would be beyond the extent of wandless magic to escape from, but that would also be rather inhumane, and probably unnecessary.
Perhaps not as effective as current punishments, but being Rip Van Winkle is still a bad situation to be in—especially if it’s intended as a punishment, as then not much will be done to help you!
Help in what sense? It wouldn’t be much use as far as rehabilitation goes, but neither are most prisons, and Azkaban is certainly worse. In terms of visitations or breakout attempts, what would be the point?
I meant not much would be done officially to help you reintegrate into a society you’ve been out of contact with.
If they don’t help to reintegrate you, then you’re more likely to reoffend. Even in Kentucky, they give you five dollars, a suit of clothes, and a bus ticket home.
A good point. This is sounding like a bad idea after all.