Should I be embarrassed to admit my own lack of ambition on this site?
Saving the world sounds like it involves a lot of painful work. I don’t like the world very much, and would prefer to escape from it instead of save it.
Addressing the topic at hand more directly, I usually assume that most of the girls here are probably located outside of convenient driving distance and aren’t here to be hit on anyway. Furthermore, after considering the extent of my personal problems, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’d be more trouble than I’m worth to any woman who might be convinced to date me, and taken myself off the market.
CronoDAS! You are trapped in a bad equilibrium, but there is no reason to believe you will be trapped in it forever. It is obvious to me that you are a thoughtful and intelligent individual. I would bet my life on the fact that you have false self-limiting beliefs. Keep experimenting in life and one day you will realize you’ve left that bad equilibrium.
Eh. I tend to agree with CronoDAS. Not that he’s objectively right that one is better off escaping from the world rather than dealing with it, but that his utility function is really screwed up by most people’s standards, and that “correcting” it is extremely difficult. It’s not at all simply a matter of self-limiting beliefs. In my case, at least, it’s a matter of a great deal of adverse conditioning that took place when I was raised, and maybe a bit of bad genes. It’s a matter of accurate assessments about the world being more emotionally disturbing to me than for most people, at a level more basic than that of beliefs.
Meh. Join the club. I tried to tell him the same thing (too sleepy to look for the link right now) but he wouldn’t listen. But maybe there’s some different nuance in the way you said it.
That’s not a lack of ambition, that’s a reasonable preference. I tend to agree: if I could take over the world singleton-style and try to improve it I would, but failing that I’d work on having a fallback (escape) position first before risking myself to “save the world” for others.
I lack ambition in other ways, too. For example, I don’t have a job, and I shudder in horror at the thought of having one. As far as I can tell, women usually don’t want a long-term romantic partner that is neither a breadwinner nor a competent homemaker. And by “escape the world”, I mostly mean “escape from the experience of living in the world,” through such means as playing World of Warcraft (which, incidentally, I tired of after a few months) or the final, irrevocable escape, death.
Some people—including some women, for example myself—consider that a reasonable preference, too. Personally, I find it much more disturbing that you seem to be focused on standard definitions of acceptability. Actually, if it wasn’t for that, and the ways I suspect it affects you (I’m making assumptions there based on when I was in a similar phase in my life, so could be wrong), I think you and I would get along more than passably well. (Possibly relevant context: I’m moderately-to-strongly asexual and not actively looking for new strong relationships at the moment.)
I would very much like to have female friends that I could talk to and hang out with in person on a regular basis. I just don’t feel comfortable seeking out romance right now.
Personally, I find it much more disturbing that you seem to be focused on standard definitions of acceptability.
Well, I think you can blame my parents for that. They’re very invested in standard definitions of acceptability and have been trying their hardest to get me to accept them, too. My parents want me to make money and be self-sufficient, but, like a child, all I want to do is play games and have fun. They’ve been trying to drive the point home that they won’t be able to support me forever, and that if I don’t get a job now, I’ll have severely restricted options because not having worked in twenty years will be a major red flag to potential employers.
Well, I think you can blame my parents for that. They’re very invested in standard definitions of acceptability and have been trying their hardest to get me to accept them, too. My parents want me to make money and be self-sufficient, but, like a child, all I want to do is play games and have fun.
Maybe this bit of framing will help: Do you have any clue how hard it is to find people who are in tune enough with their own values to do what they want, in the face of societal pressure? Especially when that doesn’t involve something that can be justified by being useful? The fact that you can do that implies a kind of functional self-awareness that I consider very valuable, no matter how you happen to be using it at the moment.
Maybe this bit of framing will help: Do you have any clue how hard it is to find people who are in tune enough with their own values to do what they want, in the face of societal pressure? Especially when that doesn’t involve something that can be justified by being useful? The fact that you can do that implies a kind of functional self-awareness that I consider very valuable, no matter how you happen to be using it at the moment.
I’m not really sure that I actually am doing what I want to do. Indeed, I don’t feel as though I’m actually doing anything at all. Playing video games and surfing the Interned is simply my default setting, my ground state, and it takes some outside influence to knock me out of it. I feel as though laziness has become the defining principle of my life; I’m not so much doing what I want as refusing to do what I don’t feel like doing. Ever see the movie Office Space? There’s this one scene...
Peter Gibbons: I uh, I don’t like my job, and, uh, I don’t think I’m gonna go anymore.
Joanna: You’re just not gonna go?
Peter Gibbons: Yeah.
Joanna: Won’t you get fired?
Peter Gibbons: I don’t know, but I really don’t like it, and, uh, I’m not gonna go.
Joanna: So you’re gonna quit?
Peter Gibbons: Nuh-uh. Not really. Uh… I’m just gonna stop going.
Joanna: When did you decide all that?
Peter Gibbons: About an hour ago.
Joanna: Oh, really? About an hour ago… so you’re gonna get another job?
Peter Gibbons: I don’t think I’d like another job.
Joanna: Well, what are you going to do about money and bills and...
Peter Gibbons: You know, I’ve never really liked paying bills. I don’t think I’m gonna do that, either.
Yep, that’s the mental state I thought you were in; I spent several years there, with the significant difference that I had to support myself and perhaps have a bit more inclination towards self-preservation than you do. (We seem to have similar opinions on the morality of suicide; my long-term motivation for not taking that route is simple curiosity about the future. I doubt I’d last six months if the world suddenly became predictable, no matter how many options I had for exploring that predictability.) Most people don’t seem to even be aware of ‘don’t like it’ in that sense, though - ‘have to’ and ‘should’ completely drown it out. But if you are basing your actions on what you want or don’t want, ‘push’ motivation (‘do this or else’) simply fails, and most ‘pull’ motivation (‘do this and you get the shiny thing’) fails because you know you won’t care about the shiny thing, either—and you have the right kind of self-confidence to use that knowledge, instead of doing something because others will disprove if you don’t. The situation changes a little if you find something that you do care about, but that’s not at all trivial—it took me over a decade, and the thing I care most about is something that was practically under my nose my whole life.
I lived near Atlantic City ’till the end of last year; now I’m in North Carolina. I have been thinking about going back for a visit come summer, though.
But if you are basing your actions on what you want or don’t want, ‘push’ motivation (‘do this or else’) simply fails, and most ‘pull’ motivation (‘do this and you get the shiny thing’) fails because you know you won’t care about the shiny thing, either
Indeed, that describes me very well.
Thank you for your kind words. It’s late, and I need to get some sleep. Anyway, my current short-term problems are loneliness and having to take care of my 94-year-old grandmother. My loneliness can, in theory, be fixed by finding someone to spend time with in person, and then spending time with that person. Hopefully I’ll figure out a way to do that; I guess that trying to contact people on my Facebook friends list might be a good start. Being stuck babysitting my grandmother nearly every day is another matter, though. I just don’t see any way to improve that situation.
Hmm. What would happen to your grandmother if you were to find a job, and why can’t that be arranged now? I understand that there will probably be some resistance from your parents to actually taking that course of action, in the circumstances, but realistically, how do they expect you to do anything with your life without the freedom to try new things?
In the meantime, you might want to try Second Life as a social venue—it’s immersive enough to fill that need in a way that chat rooms and other text-only ways of communicating don’t quite manage to, at least for me.
Short answer: They’d probably try to hire a live-in caretaker. I don’t have to babysit her 24⁄7, but having to be with her for a few hours almost every day does limit my ability to, say, go off to an all-day Magic tournament. It can’t be any more restrictive than having an actual full-time job, though.
Actually, it sounds more restrictive than a full-time job, in the sense that most jobs involve a significant amount of social contact, and most decent ones also involve some degree of ongoing exposure to new ideas, too, so there’s a significant chance that you’ll be exposed to something you find interesting enough to get involved with on your own time, and your situation doesn’t involve either of those, and interferes with your ability to pursue such things on your own time.
On most days, I go to her house around 5:PM or so, take her out to eat, take her back home, and sit on her sofa playing my Nintendo DS or something until I send her to bed and go home (usually around 10:30 or so). My parents set up an Internet connection there, so I can go online if I want; it’s not much different from simply staying in my own house doing what I normally do. As for social contact, well, you’re probably right about that. I am on a first-name basis with some of the staff at my local IHOP, though. ;)
Pure off topic curiousity: if you could change that, would you? If you could wake up tomorrow and seriously want to have a job and live a more “standard” life and pursue a girlfriend etc., would you choose to do so?
Furthermore, after considering the extent of my personal problems, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’d be more trouble than I’m worth to any woman who might be convinced to date me, and taken myself off the market.
Surely you’re aware that it’s a self-fulfilling conclusion, as is its negation.
Should I be embarrassed to admit my own lack of ambition on this site?
Saving the world sounds like it involves a lot of painful work. I don’t like the world very much, and would prefer to escape from it instead of save it.
Addressing the topic at hand more directly, I usually assume that most of the girls here are probably located outside of convenient driving distance and aren’t here to be hit on anyway. Furthermore, after considering the extent of my personal problems, I’ve come to the conclusion that I’d be more trouble than I’m worth to any woman who might be convinced to date me, and taken myself off the market.
CronoDAS! You are trapped in a bad equilibrium, but there is no reason to believe you will be trapped in it forever. It is obvious to me that you are a thoughtful and intelligent individual. I would bet my life on the fact that you have false self-limiting beliefs. Keep experimenting in life and one day you will realize you’ve left that bad equilibrium.
Eh. I tend to agree with CronoDAS. Not that he’s objectively right that one is better off escaping from the world rather than dealing with it, but that his utility function is really screwed up by most people’s standards, and that “correcting” it is extremely difficult. It’s not at all simply a matter of self-limiting beliefs. In my case, at least, it’s a matter of a great deal of adverse conditioning that took place when I was raised, and maybe a bit of bad genes. It’s a matter of accurate assessments about the world being more emotionally disturbing to me than for most people, at a level more basic than that of beliefs.
More here.
(Note that I’m doing better recently, finally having found some meds with a decently strong placebo effect.)
Meh. Join the club. I tried to tell him the same thing (too sleepy to look for the link right now) but he wouldn’t listen. But maybe there’s some different nuance in the way you said it.
Why start now? ;)
Because I’m an Internet masochist who can’t keep a secret to save his life?
And probably wouldn’t if you could!
That’s not a lack of ambition, that’s a reasonable preference. I tend to agree: if I could take over the world singleton-style and try to improve it I would, but failing that I’d work on having a fallback (escape) position first before risking myself to “save the world” for others.
I lack ambition in other ways, too. For example, I don’t have a job, and I shudder in horror at the thought of having one. As far as I can tell, women usually don’t want a long-term romantic partner that is neither a breadwinner nor a competent homemaker. And by “escape the world”, I mostly mean “escape from the experience of living in the world,” through such means as playing World of Warcraft (which, incidentally, I tired of after a few months) or the final, irrevocable escape, death.
Some people—including some women, for example myself—consider that a reasonable preference, too. Personally, I find it much more disturbing that you seem to be focused on standard definitions of acceptability. Actually, if it wasn’t for that, and the ways I suspect it affects you (I’m making assumptions there based on when I was in a similar phase in my life, so could be wrong), I think you and I would get along more than passably well. (Possibly relevant context: I’m moderately-to-strongly asexual and not actively looking for new strong relationships at the moment.)
I would very much like to have female friends that I could talk to and hang out with in person on a regular basis. I just don’t feel comfortable seeking out romance right now.
Well, I think you can blame my parents for that. They’re very invested in standard definitions of acceptability and have been trying their hardest to get me to accept them, too. My parents want me to make money and be self-sufficient, but, like a child, all I want to do is play games and have fun. They’ve been trying to drive the point home that they won’t be able to support me forever, and that if I don’t get a job now, I’ll have severely restricted options because not having worked in twenty years will be a major red flag to potential employers.
Maybe this bit of framing will help: Do you have any clue how hard it is to find people who are in tune enough with their own values to do what they want, in the face of societal pressure? Especially when that doesn’t involve something that can be justified by being useful? The fact that you can do that implies a kind of functional self-awareness that I consider very valuable, no matter how you happen to be using it at the moment.
Where are you located, by the way?
I’m not really sure that I actually am doing what I want to do. Indeed, I don’t feel as though I’m actually doing anything at all. Playing video games and surfing the Interned is simply my default setting, my ground state, and it takes some outside influence to knock me out of it. I feel as though laziness has become the defining principle of my life; I’m not so much doing what I want as refusing to do what I don’t feel like doing. Ever see the movie Office Space? There’s this one scene...
That’s pretty much me.
Central New Jersey.
Yep, that’s the mental state I thought you were in; I spent several years there, with the significant difference that I had to support myself and perhaps have a bit more inclination towards self-preservation than you do. (We seem to have similar opinions on the morality of suicide; my long-term motivation for not taking that route is simple curiosity about the future. I doubt I’d last six months if the world suddenly became predictable, no matter how many options I had for exploring that predictability.) Most people don’t seem to even be aware of ‘don’t like it’ in that sense, though - ‘have to’ and ‘should’ completely drown it out. But if you are basing your actions on what you want or don’t want, ‘push’ motivation (‘do this or else’) simply fails, and most ‘pull’ motivation (‘do this and you get the shiny thing’) fails because you know you won’t care about the shiny thing, either—and you have the right kind of self-confidence to use that knowledge, instead of doing something because others will disprove if you don’t. The situation changes a little if you find something that you do care about, but that’s not at all trivial—it took me over a decade, and the thing I care most about is something that was practically under my nose my whole life.
I lived near Atlantic City ’till the end of last year; now I’m in North Carolina. I have been thinking about going back for a visit come summer, though.
Indeed, that describes me very well.
Thank you for your kind words. It’s late, and I need to get some sleep. Anyway, my current short-term problems are loneliness and having to take care of my 94-year-old grandmother. My loneliness can, in theory, be fixed by finding someone to spend time with in person, and then spending time with that person. Hopefully I’ll figure out a way to do that; I guess that trying to contact people on my Facebook friends list might be a good start. Being stuck babysitting my grandmother nearly every day is another matter, though. I just don’t see any way to improve that situation.
Hmm. What would happen to your grandmother if you were to find a job, and why can’t that be arranged now? I understand that there will probably be some resistance from your parents to actually taking that course of action, in the circumstances, but realistically, how do they expect you to do anything with your life without the freedom to try new things?
In the meantime, you might want to try Second Life as a social venue—it’s immersive enough to fill that need in a way that chat rooms and other text-only ways of communicating don’t quite manage to, at least for me.
Short answer: They’d probably try to hire a live-in caretaker. I don’t have to babysit her 24⁄7, but having to be with her for a few hours almost every day does limit my ability to, say, go off to an all-day Magic tournament. It can’t be any more restrictive than having an actual full-time job, though.
Actually, it sounds more restrictive than a full-time job, in the sense that most jobs involve a significant amount of social contact, and most decent ones also involve some degree of ongoing exposure to new ideas, too, so there’s a significant chance that you’ll be exposed to something you find interesting enough to get involved with on your own time, and your situation doesn’t involve either of those, and interferes with your ability to pursue such things on your own time.
On most days, I go to her house around 5:PM or so, take her out to eat, take her back home, and sit on her sofa playing my Nintendo DS or something until I send her to bed and go home (usually around 10:30 or so). My parents set up an Internet connection there, so I can go online if I want; it’s not much different from simply staying in my own house doing what I normally do. As for social contact, well, you’re probably right about that. I am on a first-name basis with some of the staff at my local IHOP, though. ;)
Pure off topic curiousity: if you could change that, would you? If you could wake up tomorrow and seriously want to have a job and live a more “standard” life and pursue a girlfriend etc., would you choose to do so?
Surely you’re aware that it’s a self-fulfilling conclusion, as is its negation.