When someone says something with such strength that there is zero effect(ask him on twitter) that means there is no uncertainty and we know all relevant variables and have assigned probabilities and utility values to them(everything is known).
Could you link to the twitter post where he describes his position? Without a clear reference to the claim under debate this exercise isn’t useful.
“One of the greatest pieces of evidence demonstrating that the family/rearing environment has no effect on eventual outcomes is the absence of birth order effects. Birth order is an excellent test for these effects: it is something that systematically differs between siblings and is bona fide non-genetic (mostly). Hence, it’s a great way to see if childhood environment leaves any sort of mark on people.”
He is just straight up naively saying parenting has no effect and the consequential statement that any one can act as if this is completely true. This is not an exercise, this is trying to convince an actual person why he is wrong. I’ll ask him for a clarified picture right now.
Parenting is simply less important than most people think. But as with the issue with health and obesity, even individuals who understand the pervasiveness of nature and the apparent stochasticity of what we call “environment” like to believe there is some way they can exert control (see locus of control, courtesy Richard Harper).
One of the greatest pieces of evidence demonstrating that the family/rearing environment has no effect on eventual outcomes is the absence of birth order effects
The first comment is equally as strong. I’m having a running dialogue with him and he will come here and correct/clarify if necessary. Please focus on the topic at hand.
I’m not sure what that means, we are not talking about normal people we are talking about people like us who can adjust to this. The goal is to understand what the upper-end people think and how they use their advanced epistemology to run their hedges/beliefs accordingly. He seems to imply from his “You do not have free will” && “Parenting has no effect” stance that it is irrelevant.
I am trying to get an idea of an interval of where parenting is for the advanced people. Fixing disorders/adhd with medication from a parents perspective vs a parent who doesn’t will easily make a kid succeed.
ADHD meds are very effective while not being on them is very bad, so is teaching them valuable skills that other people do not know IS a good idea.
This style of conversation is important because the advantage of knowing even rudimentary decision theory gives you over say naive rationalism/‘traditional rationalism’/naive empiricism.
If you don’t understand what that means, than it would be useful to work on understanding. If you don’t understand the position of the person with whom you argue you can’t know whether or not you agree with them.
I am not trying to have a side conversation.
Clarifying where disagreement is isn’t a side conversation. Do you believe that there are meaningful differences in parenting quality of US middle class people? (When genetics are factored out)
Could you link to the twitter post where he describes his position? Without a clear reference to the claim under debate this exercise isn’t useful.
He is just straight up naively saying parenting has no effect and the consequential statement that any one can act as if this is completely true. This is not an exercise, this is trying to convince an actual person why he is wrong. I’ll ask him for a clarified picture right now.
https://jaymans.wordpress.com/category/parenting-2/ https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2014/12/21/iq-and-birth-order-effects-real-no/
That’s different then claiming that the effect is zero and that you can completely mess it up without bad effects.
The first comment is equally as strong. I’m having a running dialogue with him and he will come here and correct/clarify if necessary. Please focus on the topic at hand.
For once can we actually have a discussion?
edit: https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2013/09/25/no-you-dont-have-free-will-and-this-is-why/
My framing is coherent and correct
editedit: he said read this post https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2014/03/31/the-son-becomes-the-father/
When the goal is to focus on the topic at hand it’s vital to understand the position on the participants.
Do you agree with the claim “Parenting is simply less important than most people think”?
I’m not sure what that means, we are not talking about normal people we are talking about people like us who can adjust to this. The goal is to understand what the upper-end people think and how they use their advanced epistemology to run their hedges/beliefs accordingly. He seems to imply from his “You do not have free will” && “Parenting has no effect” stance that it is irrelevant.
I am trying to get an idea of an interval of where parenting is for the advanced people. Fixing disorders/adhd with medication from a parents perspective vs a parent who doesn’t will easily make a kid succeed.
ADHD meds are very effective while not being on them is very bad, so is teaching them valuable skills that other people do not know IS a good idea.
This style of conversation is important because the advantage of knowing even rudimentary decision theory gives you over say naive rationalism/‘traditional rationalism’/naive empiricism.
If you don’t understand what that means, than it would be useful to work on understanding. If you don’t understand the position of the person with whom you argue you can’t know whether or not you agree with them.
Clarifying where disagreement is isn’t a side conversation. Do you believe that there are meaningful differences in parenting quality of US middle class people? (When genetics are factored out)
I don’t agree that it is relevant and it skewers the conversation in a direction that I do not think is important or obscures the discussion.