It seems that a better example for your case would be some book of a modern extremely woke-leftist. Notice how shocked you are that someone might be endorsing the wokist perception of TBC, how you’d wish that it, as well as disclaimer culture were below the sanity waterline. How tempting it is to assume by default that social justice crowd are unreasonable and are arguing in bad faith while their claims that Murray wrote a book in a bad faith are mildly offensive. How you feel your own raison d’etre being threatenned. Now that looks like an outgroup.
What do you mean, “would’ve”? That wasn’t a hypothetical scenario. I wasn’t using Mein Kampf as an example of anything; I was talking about the actual thing.
As for the rest of your comment—there’s no “assume” about it.
I understand Ape in the coat to be saying the bit from I Can Tolerate Anything Except the Outgroup, “Thus do you gain no merit by tolerating them!”, implying that you have nothing against fascists, and contrasting that to book review by a woke leftist, like perhaps the White Fragility review that was posted back in September.
I’m not saying that you literally have nothing against fashists. I’m pretty sure you disagree with them on nearly every subject, find them generally evil and do not really want to associate with them. I’m saying that they are not your outgroup in the same sense that Osama bin Laden wasn’t outgroup for blue tribe while Margaret Thatcher was:
...Blue Tribe – can’t get together enough energy to really hate Osama, let alone Muslims in general. We understand that what he did was bad, but it didn’t anger us personally. When he died, we were able to very rationally apply our better nature and our Far Mode beliefs about how it’s never right to be happy about anyone else’s death.
On the other hand, that same group absolutely loathed Thatcher. Most of us (though not all) can agree, if the question is posed explicitly, that Osama was a worse person than Thatcher. But in terms of actual gut feeling? Osama provokes a snap judgment of “flawed human being”, Thatcher a snap judgment of “scum”.
Fashists are not your outgroup, they are the outgroup of your outgroup. Contrary to a popular belief, this doesn’t make them your friends or allies. Sometimes you can benefit them, for instance, by arguing in favour of making LessWrong more attractive for them and less attractive for social justice related people, but it only happens by chance. For you, fashists are mainly an easy way to demonstrate how rational and tolerant you are, compared to the woke-leftists—your real outgroup. Thus scoring some points in a social game.
That would’ve been extremely virtious of you, if fashists actually were your outgroup.
It seems that a better example for your case would be some book of a modern extremely woke-leftist. Notice how shocked you are that someone might be endorsing the wokist perception of TBC, how you’d wish that it, as well as disclaimer culture were below the sanity waterline. How tempting it is to assume by default that social justice crowd are unreasonable and are arguing in bad faith while their claims that Murray wrote a book in a bad faith are mildly offensive. How you feel your own raison d’etre being threatenned. Now that looks like an outgroup.
What do you mean, “would’ve”? That wasn’t a hypothetical scenario. I wasn’t using Mein Kampf as an example of anything; I was talking about the actual thing.
As for the rest of your comment—there’s no “assume” about it.
I understand Ape in the coat to be saying the bit from I Can Tolerate Anything Except the Outgroup, “Thus do you gain no merit by tolerating them!”, implying that you have nothing against fascists, and contrasting that to book review by a woke leftist, like perhaps the White Fragility review that was posted back in September.
If so, then that’s an absurd thing to say. Given my background, saying that I have nothing against fascists is one heck of a claim…
I’m not saying that you literally have nothing against fashists. I’m pretty sure you disagree with them on nearly every subject, find them generally evil and do not really want to associate with them. I’m saying that they are not your outgroup in the same sense that Osama bin Laden wasn’t outgroup for blue tribe while Margaret Thatcher was:
Fashists are not your outgroup, they are the outgroup of your outgroup. Contrary to a popular belief, this doesn’t make them your friends or allies. Sometimes you can benefit them, for instance, by arguing in favour of making LessWrong more attractive for them and less attractive for social justice related people, but it only happens by chance. For you, fashists are mainly an easy way to demonstrate how rational and tolerant you are, compared to the woke-leftists—your real outgroup. Thus scoring some points in a social game.