I don’t believe such entities exist. That is reasonable. I believe that such entities do not exist. That is less reasonable. I plead guilty to this departure from ideal rationality.
If you know that a certain belief is unreasonable, and in what direction it is unreasonable, how do you still believe it? (I mean that both in the sense of “Why would you?” and of “How can you?”.) Is that not an instance of belief in self-deception?
I don’t think so. And neither should you unless you think that God exists. That posting by Eliezer is about Tarski’s litany—which I think I can recite without hypocrisy.
If God exists, I desire to believe “God exists”
If God doesn’t exist, I desire to believe “God doesn’t exist”.
Since I believe that God does not exist, therefore I believe I have believed what I want to believe. It sounds far more disreputable than it really is.
To be honest, I have already discussed the issue of how much my decision (to believe that God does not exist) departs from Bayesian rationality and whether that departure from rationality matters. I would prefer not to discuss it further, unless it is to discuss it with a theist. That might lead to a more interesting discussion.
I would prefer not to discuss it further, unless it is to discuss it with a theist. That might lead to a more interesting discussion.
Because the theist has a good definition (or at least they think so) of what God is. If I remember right then the debate you had here revolved around semantics. You’ve to ask if to believe that a specific being, with certain characteristics and qualities, does exist departs from Bayesian rationality. But simply asking if believing that God does exist departs from Bayesian rationality on LW is like asking color-blind aliens if believing that the color red does exist departs from reality. They could probably offer a lot of answers, but without asking the right (specific) question you’d gain nothing.
Request: Please explain. What (which?) is the crime? Why is “social pressure” the appropriate sentence? And what does the linked post have to do with either one?
Comment: There are several people here with the annoying habit of writing critical responses that are so terse and cryptic as to be useless to the recipient. You are one person who often does this; wedrifid is another. EY sometimes does it too.
If your goal in making these comments is to other-optimize, or to uphold LW standards, then you should understand that cryptic criticism does not accomplish those goals. If you are merely signaling your own cleverness, well …, ok, but if it were me, I would seek to appear clever to multitudes.
I think it is problematic that there is no immediate observable difference in behavior between the beliefs. I guess this is asking—how does Perplexed know he has the stronger belief?
[nevermind this second paragraph, omitted, the lines between actions, beliefs, and choices seem so murky to me, I don’t think there’s any point in pursuing them]
I think it is problematic that there is no immediate observable difference in behavior between the beliefs. I guess this is asking—how does Perplexed know he has the stronger belief?
I suppose I could respond “If there is no difference in what behavior would be rational for me to exhibit, what makes you think that one belief is stronger than the other?”.
There is one hypothetical behavior difference, though. A more cautious atheist, confronted with a hypothetical Judgment Day, will simply say “Well, what do you know? God exists after all!” He will then do his Bayesian updating and proceed about his business. Whereas I, having been too impulsive in my youth, will wander around muttering to myself, “I notice that I am confused”.
That is a difference in behavior, hypothetically at least. Now, if only I knew that this is the way I would hypothetically behave, then I could answer your original question.
If you know that a certain belief is unreasonable, and in what direction it is unreasonable, how do you still believe it? (I mean that both in the sense of “Why would you?” and of “How can you?”.) Is that not an instance of belief in self-deception?
I don’t think so. And neither should you unless you think that God exists. That posting by Eliezer is about Tarski’s litany—which I think I can recite without hypocrisy.
Since I believe that God does not exist, therefore I believe I have believed what I want to believe. It sounds far more disreputable than it really is.
To be honest, I have already discussed the issue of how much my decision (to believe that God does not exist) departs from Bayesian rationality and whether that departure from rationality matters. I would prefer not to discuss it further, unless it is to discuss it with a theist. That might lead to a more interesting discussion.
Because the theist has a good definition (or at least they think so) of what God is. If I remember right then the debate you had here revolved around semantics. You’ve to ask if to believe that a specific being, with certain characteristics and qualities, does exist departs from Bayesian rationality. But simply asking if believing that God does exist departs from Bayesian rationality on LW is like asking color-blind aliens if believing that the color red does exist departs from reality. They could probably offer a lot of answers, but without asking the right (specific) question you’d gain nothing.
Shame on you!
(A bit of social pressure is in order.)
Request: Please explain. What (which?) is the crime? Why is “social pressure” the appropriate sentence? And what does the linked post have to do with either one?
Comment: There are several people here with the annoying habit of writing critical responses that are so terse and cryptic as to be useless to the recipient. You are one person who often does this; wedrifid is another. EY sometimes does it too.
If your goal in making these comments is to other-optimize, or to uphold LW standards, then you should understand that cryptic criticism does not accomplish those goals. If you are merely signaling your own cleverness, well …, ok, but if it were me, I would seek to appear clever to multitudes.
I think it is problematic that there is no immediate observable difference in behavior between the beliefs. I guess this is asking—how does Perplexed know he has the stronger belief?
[nevermind this second paragraph, omitted, the lines between actions, beliefs, and choices seem so murky to me, I don’t think there’s any point in pursuing them]
I suppose I could respond “If there is no difference in what behavior would be rational for me to exhibit, what makes you think that one belief is stronger than the other?”.
There is one hypothetical behavior difference, though. A more cautious atheist, confronted with a hypothetical Judgment Day, will simply say “Well, what do you know? God exists after all!” He will then do his Bayesian updating and proceed about his business. Whereas I, having been too impulsive in my youth, will wander around muttering to myself, “I notice that I am confused”.
That is a difference in behavior, hypothetically at least. Now, if only I knew that this is the way I would hypothetically behave, then I could answer your original question.