Obscurity may also have something to do with it, but if I’m remembering right Asperger’s was comparably obscure until at least the late Nineties.
Actually, what’s now called Asperger’s was initially part of what Kanner called autistic psychopathy. However, some people with severe problems and/or mental retardation also had the same symptoms, so the diagnosis was expanded to cover them. Then it narrowed to include entirely those with very severe disabilities, such that autistics/Aspies with the ability to “pass” (act normal or act like something other than disabled) to any degree were overlooked despite needing recognition, information and assistance. So a researcher decided to introduce a new diagnosis, Asperger’s Syndrome, to cover spiffy-shiny-cool autistics, as opposed to need-lots-of-help autistics, because the spiffy-shiny-cool kind still needed assistance and often had serious problems as a result of the mismatch between their abilities and other people’s expectations. Asperger’s entered the DSM-IV in the early/mid nineties.
So the timing coincided with the explosion of Silicon Valley; combine with their genuine presence there to some degree, and hey presto...
I’d also suggest that Asperger’s is inherently flattering to some degree: it inherently implies you’re smart, and capable in some field. (‘Yes, I can’t understand people but that’s not my fault, I have Asperger’s, which also means I’m smarter than you.’)
Schizoid on the other hand, besides sounding like ‘schizophrenia’ (zero positive connotations), looks bad even when you read the entire Wikipedia entry: almost like a synonym for sociopath/psychopath. (Funny thing, BBC’s new Sherlock series has Sherlock as a diagnosed sociopath, so even that diagnosis may yet be redeemed.) It’s not clear why anyone would want to claim a self-diagnosis of that, since little about it is ‘egosyntonic’, as the psychiatrists say.
I’d also suggest that Asperger’s is inherently flattering to some degree: it inherently implies you’re smart, and capable in some field. (‘Yes, I can’t understand people but that’s not my fault, I have Asperger’s, which also means I’m smarter than you.’)
I’ve had more than a few people with Asperger’s tell me that it’s correlated with higher intelligence in a manner implying that it’s something for them personally to be proud of, and I’ve always found it extremely frustrating.
If in order to convince people you’re smart you find yourself needing to tell people “I’m in X demographic associated with smartness,” you’re not that smart.
Schizoid is nothing like a synonym for psychopath/sociopath. Being asocial is not the same as being antisocial, indifference is not malevelonce. Coldness just pattern matches to malevolence (and in some very poorly calibrated people so does indifference) and the pattern breaks down with schizoids in the first case and is non existant anyway in the second. I just spent 5 minutes on the first google hit for schizoid forum and found this quote: “Emotions and expressing them, as well as manipulating and even intimidating other people seem to be awfully important to the majority of people. In my opinion most of them are a little savage” -under ice. That’s exactly how I used to see things. The difference now is a lot closer to giving in than growing up. At best it’s a compromise.
Behind, or at least related to your comparison to psycopathy and sociopathy might be the feeling people often have that wierdness is hostility, lack of friendliness is hostility etc which is practically an unspoken meme.
If anything the wikipedia page puts Schizoids at risk of coming accross as pathetic rather than dangerous but there’s got to be a massive selection effect for pathological schizoids among those who see a psychiatrist. If you go on the schizoid forums you’ll find plenty of self diagnosed schizoids who are indifferent or happy with their alleged disorder. And the specific type of pathetic that comes accross in the wikipedia article seems to be a product of integrity. Maybe it’s a little sad that someone aloof and cold under the surface wants to be loved (and with the amount this meme is bombarded at people I pretty much interpret this as schizoid people being infected by memes definetely not optimised for them. Maybe the ones going to psychologists are just the ones who internalised the meme? Anyway, at least they’re not editing themselves. Failure before self modifying in a way judged to be bad.
Schizoidism seems so clearly superior to normality to me.
anyway, to sum all this up “egosyntonic” is a relative term.
Also, Sherlock a sociopath? Really? He’s indifferent at worst. Certainly not hostile to the average person most of the time. “Failure to conform to social norms” is one of the criteria for diagnosis as having antisocial personality disorder. At the least there’s a lot of imposition of social norms mixed into the diagnostic criteria for all those “disorders”
Doesn’t sociopathy merely imply a lack of caring, not an active malevolence? Because Sherlock does repeatedly demonstrate an extreme lack of caring- the accused murderer at the start of ‘The Great Game’ who he refused to help while mocking his poor grammar; his (inaccurate) revelation that Molly’s ‘boyfriend’ ‘Jim’ was gay; his entire relationship with Molly; the way he left Adler at the end of ‘A Scandal in Belgravia’; his poisoning and terrifying Watson in ‘The Hounds of Baskerville’; the way he keeps disrupting Watson’s attempts to live his life; etc.
Also, Sherlock a sociopath? Really? He’s indifferent at worst. Certainly not hostile to the average person most of the time. “Failure to conform to social norms” is one of the criteria for diagnosis as having antisocial personality disorder. At the least there’s a lot of imposition of social norms mixed into the diagnostic criteria for all those “disorders”
Well, that’s what the series said in the first episode, and maybe the second too. I think he does come off as a little sociopathic, minus all the malevolent parts—schizoid doesn’t seem to imply the manipulation or game-playing which all good Sherlocks engage in (whether they’re named ‘Sherlock’ or ‘House’).
Actually, what’s now called Asperger’s was initially part of what Kanner called autistic psychopathy. However, some people with severe problems and/or mental retardation also had the same symptoms, so the diagnosis was expanded to cover them. Then it narrowed to include entirely those with very severe disabilities, such that autistics/Aspies with the ability to “pass” (act normal or act like something other than disabled) to any degree were overlooked despite needing recognition, information and assistance. So a researcher decided to introduce a new diagnosis, Asperger’s Syndrome, to cover spiffy-shiny-cool autistics, as opposed to need-lots-of-help autistics, because the spiffy-shiny-cool kind still needed assistance and often had serious problems as a result of the mismatch between their abilities and other people’s expectations. Asperger’s entered the DSM-IV in the early/mid nineties.
So the timing coincided with the explosion of Silicon Valley; combine with their genuine presence there to some degree, and hey presto...
I’d also suggest that Asperger’s is inherently flattering to some degree: it inherently implies you’re smart, and capable in some field. (‘Yes, I can’t understand people but that’s not my fault, I have Asperger’s, which also means I’m smarter than you.’)
Schizoid on the other hand, besides sounding like ‘schizophrenia’ (zero positive connotations), looks bad even when you read the entire Wikipedia entry: almost like a synonym for sociopath/psychopath. (Funny thing, BBC’s new Sherlock series has Sherlock as a diagnosed sociopath, so even that diagnosis may yet be redeemed.) It’s not clear why anyone would want to claim a self-diagnosis of that, since little about it is ‘egosyntonic’, as the psychiatrists say.
I’ve had more than a few people with Asperger’s tell me that it’s correlated with higher intelligence in a manner implying that it’s something for them personally to be proud of, and I’ve always found it extremely frustrating.
If in order to convince people you’re smart you find yourself needing to tell people “I’m in X demographic associated with smartness,” you’re not that smart.
Basically, I think schizoidism is pretty cool.
Schizoid is nothing like a synonym for psychopath/sociopath. Being asocial is not the same as being antisocial, indifference is not malevelonce. Coldness just pattern matches to malevolence (and in some very poorly calibrated people so does indifference) and the pattern breaks down with schizoids in the first case and is non existant anyway in the second. I just spent 5 minutes on the first google hit for schizoid forum and found this quote: “Emotions and expressing them, as well as manipulating and even intimidating other people seem to be awfully important to the majority of people. In my opinion most of them are a little savage” -under ice. That’s exactly how I used to see things. The difference now is a lot closer to giving in than growing up. At best it’s a compromise.
Behind, or at least related to your comparison to psycopathy and sociopathy might be the feeling people often have that wierdness is hostility, lack of friendliness is hostility etc which is practically an unspoken meme.
If anything the wikipedia page puts Schizoids at risk of coming accross as pathetic rather than dangerous but there’s got to be a massive selection effect for pathological schizoids among those who see a psychiatrist. If you go on the schizoid forums you’ll find plenty of self diagnosed schizoids who are indifferent or happy with their alleged disorder. And the specific type of pathetic that comes accross in the wikipedia article seems to be a product of integrity. Maybe it’s a little sad that someone aloof and cold under the surface wants to be loved (and with the amount this meme is bombarded at people I pretty much interpret this as schizoid people being infected by memes definetely not optimised for them. Maybe the ones going to psychologists are just the ones who internalised the meme? Anyway, at least they’re not editing themselves. Failure before self modifying in a way judged to be bad.
Schizoidism seems so clearly superior to normality to me.
anyway, to sum all this up “egosyntonic” is a relative term.
Also, Sherlock a sociopath? Really? He’s indifferent at worst. Certainly not hostile to the average person most of the time. “Failure to conform to social norms” is one of the criteria for diagnosis as having antisocial personality disorder. At the least there’s a lot of imposition of social norms mixed into the diagnostic criteria for all those “disorders”
Doesn’t sociopathy merely imply a lack of caring, not an active malevolence? Because Sherlock does repeatedly demonstrate an extreme lack of caring- the accused murderer at the start of ‘The Great Game’ who he refused to help while mocking his poor grammar; his (inaccurate) revelation that Molly’s ‘boyfriend’ ‘Jim’ was gay; his entire relationship with Molly; the way he left Adler at the end of ‘A Scandal in Belgravia’; his poisoning and terrifying Watson in ‘The Hounds of Baskerville’; the way he keeps disrupting Watson’s attempts to live his life; etc.
Yes, and it is specific to emotional feelings, not what all things considered you end up deciding to do.
Well, that’s what the series said in the first episode, and maybe the second too. I think he does come off as a little sociopathic, minus all the malevolent parts—schizoid doesn’t seem to imply the manipulation or game-playing which all good Sherlocks engage in (whether they’re named ‘Sherlock’ or ‘House’).
The Mentalist is unofficially diagnosed as a sociopath as well.
And it probably won’t be in the next DSM.