It seems to me that what actually helped build common knowledge in the Ialdabaoth case was the victims posting their specific stories online, serving a role analogous to transcripts of witness testimony in court.[1]
I think the effects of that (on my beliefs, at least) were indirect. The accusations themselves didn’t move me very much, but caused a number of private and semi-public info-sharing conversations that did move me substantially.
That is, I perceive a huge difference between, “Witnesses A, B, and C testified that X commited a serious crime and no exculpatory evidence has emerged, therefore I’m joining the coalition for ostracizing X” (analogous to a court)
I do want to stress the ways in which the exile of Ialdabaoth does not match my standards for courts (altho I agree it is analogous). The main issue, in my mind at least, is that no one had the clear mandate within the community to ‘try the case’, and those that stepped forward didn’t have broader social recognition of even their limited mandate. (No one could sue a judge or jury for libel if they found ialdabaoth guilty, but the panels that gathered evidence could be sued for libel for publishing their views on ialdabaoth.) And this is before we get to the way in which ‘the case’ was tried in multiple places with varying levels of buy-in from the parties involved.
But, maybe I’m completely misunderstanding what you meant by “immune system”? It would be great if you could clarify what you’re thinking here.
The thing that’s missing, in my mind, is the way in which antibodies get developed and amplified. That is, I’m less concerned with people deciding whether or not to copy a view, and more concerned with the view being put in public in the first place. My sense is that, by default, people rarely publicly share their worries about other people, and this gets worse instead of better if they suspect the person in question is adversarial. (If I think Bob is doing shady things, including silencing his enemies, this makes it harder to ask people what they think of Bob, whereas if Carol is generally incompetent and annoying, this makes it easier to ask people what they think of Carol.)
If you suspect there’s adversarial optimization going on, the default strategies seem to be ignoring it and hoping it goes away, or letting it develop until it destroys itself, and the exceptional case is one where active countermeasures are taken. This is for a handful of reasons, one of which includes attempting to take such active countermeasures is generally opposed-by-default, unless clear authority or responsibility has been established beforehand.
When it comes to putting views in public it seems to me like posts like the OP or Anna’s post about Vassar do note concerns but they leave the actual meat of the issue unsaid.
Michael Vassar for example spent a good portion of this year in Berlin and I had decisions to make about to what extend I want to try to integrate him into the local community or avoid doing that.
Without the links in the comments I wouldn’t have had a good case for making decisions should ialdabaoth appear in Berlin.
I don’t know to where ialdabaoth went into exil but there’s a good chance that he will interact with other local rationality groups who will have to make decisions and who benefit from getting information.
I think the effects of that (on my beliefs, at least) were indirect. The accusations themselves didn’t move me very much, but caused a number of private and semi-public info-sharing conversations that did move me substantially.
I do want to stress the ways in which the exile of Ialdabaoth does not match my standards for courts (altho I agree it is analogous). The main issue, in my mind at least, is that no one had the clear mandate within the community to ‘try the case’, and those that stepped forward didn’t have broader social recognition of even their limited mandate. (No one could sue a judge or jury for libel if they found ialdabaoth guilty, but the panels that gathered evidence could be sued for libel for publishing their views on ialdabaoth.) And this is before we get to the way in which ‘the case’ was tried in multiple places with varying levels of buy-in from the parties involved.
The thing that’s missing, in my mind, is the way in which antibodies get developed and amplified. That is, I’m less concerned with people deciding whether or not to copy a view, and more concerned with the view being put in public in the first place. My sense is that, by default, people rarely publicly share their worries about other people, and this gets worse instead of better if they suspect the person in question is adversarial. (If I think Bob is doing shady things, including silencing his enemies, this makes it harder to ask people what they think of Bob, whereas if Carol is generally incompetent and annoying, this makes it easier to ask people what they think of Carol.)
If you suspect there’s adversarial optimization going on, the default strategies seem to be ignoring it and hoping it goes away, or letting it develop until it destroys itself, and the exceptional case is one where active countermeasures are taken. This is for a handful of reasons, one of which includes attempting to take such active countermeasures is generally opposed-by-default, unless clear authority or responsibility has been established beforehand.
When it comes to putting views in public it seems to me like posts like the OP or Anna’s post about Vassar do note concerns but they leave the actual meat of the issue unsaid.
Michael Vassar for example spent a good portion of this year in Berlin and I had decisions to make about to what extend I want to try to integrate him into the local community or avoid doing that.
Without the links in the comments I wouldn’t have had a good case for making decisions should ialdabaoth appear in Berlin.
I don’t know to where ialdabaoth went into exil but there’s a good chance that he will interact with other local rationality groups who will have to make decisions and who benefit from getting information.