If respirators are widely available (even in the absence of vaccines), the responsibility for protection (especially for voluntary activities) falls on the person that doesn’t want to get infected.
If someone wants to protect others, they should wear ventless (or vented-but-filtered) respirators. Non-respirator masks provide little to no protection.
Hmm. If we’re in a world of completely individualized responsibility for avoiding illness by masking (or not, and dealing with the consequences), then it’s completely unacceptable for society at large to ever force an individual to mask or not (e.g. TSA checkpoints are an obviously relevant sticking point for flying). Can’t have it both ways.
If there were no reasonable ways (e.g., lack of respirators and/or vaccines) for an individual to protect themselves against covid, society could force everyone to protect individuals. The only reason why mask mandates (and associated NPIs) were ever a thing was that there were no other reasonable ways of protecting against covid. Now, there are other reasonable ways of protecting against covid, and that’s why mask mandates aren’t a thing anymore.
You seemed to be talking about mask mandates versus individual responsibility, and that’s what I replied about. If you think my reply didn’t address your comment, can you rephrase it or point out why you think my comment wasn’t responsive?
I didn’t say anything about ever requiring anyone to wear a mask, and yet that’s the only topic that you addressed in your reply.
I think there are a lot more options than a simplistic binary between collectively forcing people to wear masks and individually forcing people to accept all responsibility for their own infection outcomes. Those two positions aren’t even really points on a single dimension, because not all responsibility is enforced responsibility. Indeed, the OP spends a fair number of words trying to discern their current unenforced responsibilities to others.
My comment was, loosely speaking, simply an informal proof by contradiction demonstrating that our society is not in fact currently and effectively aligned with your asserted state of the world. I started by granting your comment’s argument that making appropriate respirators available for sale in appropriate quantities means that individuals are expected to manage their risk of COVID infection without supporting interventions from the rest of society. I then pointed out that there’s at least one clear-cut way that society currently falls short of this premise — people are not always free to choose whether they will wear or not wear a mask, and by definition one cannot be the sole responsible party for a decision they cannot decide. Because something needs to change in order to enact your asserted state of the world, we know that this world state hasn’t been fully implemented yet — both sides of a contradiction can’t be simultaneously true.
I suspect we mostly agree about this, and the apparent disagreement was caused by a misunderstanding.
So, let me clarify: what I tried to say is that as long as individuals can protect themselves, there is no compelling reason for society to force others to protect individuals or for others to voluntarily protect individuals in those situations in which individuals can protect themselves (I probably should have been more explicit about this to avoid any confusion). For instance, if you need a root canal, you obviously can’t protect yourself by wearing a respirator (and assuming that vaccines weren’t effective), and dental staff should wear respirators and perhaps also increase ventilation. In the case of flying, individuals can protect themselves by using a respirator, and there would be no point in having anyone else mask up. Earlier in the pandemic, having everyone mask in most situations was a good policy at the societal and individual level, but now it’s not for the reasons I’ve already mentioned.
It seems like you’re treating “protect yourself” as binary, when it’s not? If I wear a snug N95 I might lower my risk by ~6x. If I swap the N95 for a P100, maybe ~12x. If I also shaved, maybe ~32x. But 32x is still not ∞x, and if the people around me also mask then risk is lower than if only I mask.
Which is not to say that everyone should mask all the time. But I think your view of responsibility is too simple: it has to depend at least in part on the level of risk remaining after taking reasonable efforts to protect oneself.
In most situations (with some exceptions like going to the dentist) and for nearly everyone (with some exceptions like people living in a nursing home), the level of risk remaining after taking reasonable efforts to protect oneself seems miniscule.
Anything that has earloops (this includes most of the KN95s that I’ve seen and all KF94s) can’t be a respirator, because it’s nearly impossible to form a seal between the filter material and the face with the low amount of tension that earloops provide. There will be massive air leakage and the filtration efficiency will be much less than 95% (the minimum standard for most respirators), regardless of the filtration efficiency of the filter material itself.
For kids, options exist that are likely to be lot better than anything with earloops. Some KN95s do have head straps like N95s (but I’ve heard that a good seal is not easy to get around the nose due to the lack of a piece of foam which N95s often have). Kid-sized elastomeric respirator-like facepieces (like the Flo Mask and Aria 19) exist and some have been “tested to” N95 or higher standards (but not officially approved by any standards body, AFAIK). A PAPR that can fit anyone can be DIYed. Although it isn’t officially approved by any standards body either AFAIK, the seals and filtering material can be verified by the person that’s DIYing it.
Most of these products have an ear loop design. NIOSH-approved N95s typically have head bands. Furthermore, limited assessment of ear loop designs, indicate difficulty achieving a proper fit. While filter efficiency shows how well the filter media performs, users must ensure a proper fit is achieved.
If respirators are widely available (even in the absence of vaccines), the responsibility for protection (especially for voluntary activities) falls on the person that doesn’t want to get infected.
If someone wants to protect others, they should wear ventless (or vented-but-filtered) respirators. Non-respirator masks provide little to no protection.
Hmm. If we’re in a world of completely individualized responsibility for avoiding illness by masking (or not, and dealing with the consequences), then it’s completely unacceptable for society at large to ever force an individual to mask or not (e.g. TSA checkpoints are an obviously relevant sticking point for flying). Can’t have it both ways.
If there were no reasonable ways (e.g., lack of respirators and/or vaccines) for an individual to protect themselves against covid, society could force everyone to protect individuals. The only reason why mask mandates (and associated NPIs) were ever a thing was that there were no other reasonable ways of protecting against covid. Now, there are other reasonable ways of protecting against covid, and that’s why mask mandates aren’t a thing anymore.
I don’t see how that’s particularly responsive to anything that I said in my comment?
You seemed to be talking about mask mandates versus individual responsibility, and that’s what I replied about. If you think my reply didn’t address your comment, can you rephrase it or point out why you think my comment wasn’t responsive?
I didn’t say anything about ever requiring anyone to wear a mask, and yet that’s the only topic that you addressed in your reply.
I think there are a lot more options than a simplistic binary between collectively forcing people to wear masks and individually forcing people to accept all responsibility for their own infection outcomes. Those two positions aren’t even really points on a single dimension, because not all responsibility is enforced responsibility. Indeed, the OP spends a fair number of words trying to discern their current unenforced responsibilities to others.
My comment was, loosely speaking, simply an informal proof by contradiction demonstrating that our society is not in fact currently and effectively aligned with your asserted state of the world. I started by granting your comment’s argument that making appropriate respirators available for sale in appropriate quantities means that individuals are expected to manage their risk of COVID infection without supporting interventions from the rest of society. I then pointed out that there’s at least one clear-cut way that society currently falls short of this premise — people are not always free to choose whether they will wear or not wear a mask, and by definition one cannot be the sole responsible party for a decision they cannot decide. Because something needs to change in order to enact your asserted state of the world, we know that this world state hasn’t been fully implemented yet — both sides of a contradiction can’t be simultaneously true.
I suspect we mostly agree about this, and the apparent disagreement was caused by a misunderstanding.
So, let me clarify: what I tried to say is that as long as individuals can protect themselves, there is no compelling reason for society to force others to protect individuals or for others to voluntarily protect individuals in those situations in which individuals can protect themselves (I probably should have been more explicit about this to avoid any confusion). For instance, if you need a root canal, you obviously can’t protect yourself by wearing a respirator (and assuming that vaccines weren’t effective), and dental staff should wear respirators and perhaps also increase ventilation. In the case of flying, individuals can protect themselves by using a respirator, and there would be no point in having anyone else mask up. Earlier in the pandemic, having everyone mask in most situations was a good policy at the societal and individual level, but now it’s not for the reasons I’ve already mentioned.
It seems like you’re treating “protect yourself” as binary, when it’s not? If I wear a snug N95 I might lower my risk by ~6x. If I swap the N95 for a P100, maybe ~12x. If I also shaved, maybe ~32x. But 32x is still not ∞x, and if the people around me also mask then risk is lower than if only I mask.
Which is not to say that everyone should mask all the time. But I think your view of responsibility is too simple: it has to depend at least in part on the level of risk remaining after taking reasonable efforts to protect oneself.
In most situations (with some exceptions like going to the dentist) and for nearly everyone (with some exceptions like people living in a nursing home), the level of risk remaining after taking reasonable efforts to protect oneself seems miniscule.
We wore ventless N95s / KN95s
The masks in your photo don’t look like respirators.
Also, KN95s aren’t respirators.
The masks in the photo are KN95s. N95s aren’t manufactured in child sizes.
I wore an N95, one kid wore a KN95, and the other switched to an N95 partway through the trip after we realized they fit her.
What’s the idea behind KN95s not being respirators? Would you say an N95 isn’t a respirator? A KF94?
Anything that has earloops (this includes most of the KN95s that I’ve seen and all KF94s) can’t be a respirator, because it’s nearly impossible to form a seal between the filter material and the face with the low amount of tension that earloops provide. There will be massive air leakage and the filtration efficiency will be much less than 95% (the minimum standard for most respirators), regardless of the filtration efficiency of the filter material itself.
For kids, options exist that are likely to be lot better than anything with earloops. Some KN95s do have head straps like N95s (but I’ve heard that a good seal is not easy to get around the nose due to the lack of a piece of foam which N95s often have). Kid-sized elastomeric respirator-like facepieces (like the Flo Mask and Aria 19) exist and some have been “tested to” N95 or higher standards (but not officially approved by any standards body, AFAIK). A PAPR that can fit anyone can be DIYed. Although it isn’t officially approved by any standards body either AFAIK, the seals and filtering material can be verified by the person that’s DIYing it.
What you say makes sense, but it isn’t how other people use the term. For example, the CDC says:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/types-of-masks.html#respirators
The CDC also says:
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/respirators/testing/NonNIOSHresults.html