This thought is very pervasive to OB/LW: see here, here, here, here, here, here, or use Google. Downvoted because you’re quoting your own LW comment, violating two of the guidelines above.
I’m not saying, give up the fight, just acknowledging the problem. The quote is attributed to Anonymous, the greatest philospher that’s ever lived, not me. And the only time i mentioned it was asking for everyone’s opinion when i first stumbled onto this blog. That’s hardly pushing my agenda. I still don’t understand how you guys trust yourself to not rationalize. I can’t remove myself out of the context of my existence (very similar to my issue with Ethics philosophy). I very quickly get to a point where survival and existance become more important than staying internally consistent.
Studies of patients with split brains have allowed us to begin to understand the functions and relative roles of different parts of our thinking organ. The left hemisphere, usually referred to as the “rational” side, is actually the rationalizing one, what neurobiologists call “the left interpreter.” It is in charge of holding onto one person’s current paradigm and worldview, no matter what the evidence. The left brain will distort facts if they conflict with the current held viewpoint.
We like to think of ourselves as rational animals, but perhaps it would be more accurate to describe ourselves as rationalizing animals. However reasonable a view may be, it’s possible that we have acquired it for wholly irrational reasons and are now simply rationalizing it in order to maintain our self-image as consistent, rational, and moral. It’s not just a question of rationalization, either — we appear capable of making up complete falsehoods as part of this.
Massimo Pigliucci continues in the Summer 2003 issue of Free Inquiry:
In fact, the left brain can literally make up stories if the evidence is scarce or contradictory. A typical experiment was with a patient characterized by a complete severance of the corpus callosum (which connects the two hemispheres in normal individuals). He was shown a chicken leg to the right half of the visual field (which is controlled by the left brain) and was asked to pick a corresponding object. Logically enough, he picked a chicken head. The subject was then shown a house with snow to the left field (controlled by the right brain) and, also logically, chose a shovel.
The individual was then asked to explain why he picked a chicken head and a shovel. Notice that there was no communication between the two hemispheres, and that the only hemisphere that can respond verbally is the left one. Astonishingly, the left hemisphere made up a story to explain the facts while being ignorant of half of them: the shovel was necessary to clean the chicken excrement!
I never cease to be amazed at the sorts of things that these experiments on cognition and brain function reveal. I’m sure that the average person would not have thought the above situation to be likely, but it clearly happened: a person made a choice for entirely sensible reasons, but because their brain was unable to understand or articulate them, it made up entirely new reasons and created a story around them.
Simply amazing — and all the more so because the belief being rationalized here was so obviously reasonable and appropriate in the first place. It’s bad enough that a person might rationalize bad beliefs, but apparently we rationalize good beliefs as well. How often do you suppose this happens? How many of our beliefs, especially the very good ones, are rationalized rather than rational?
Should be perhaps change our beliefs about qualifies as “rational”? If we did, wouldn’t that be a rationalization as well?
We don’t “trust” ourselves not to rationalize, we acknowledge the problem and fight it.
If you’re trying to make the point that truth-seeking isn’t always beneficial, we know that too. I’m too lazy to give you a large list of links, but the first ever post by Robin and the second ever post by Eliezer discuss the issue. I’d estimate the number of posts dealing with this exact topic to be somewhere between 10 and 100 (including my own first post on LW when I was much stupider than now), so you may find it interesting to browse the archives for a while.
simply saying that you’ve talked about a weakness doesn’t erradicate it. The weakness may be within you, but what affects you mroe is the extent of the problem with the REST of the society. If anything my point is that you should be spending all your effort working on the other 99% of the population, because they’re going to affect your life a whole lot more by limiting your ability to live your life they way you think it oughta be lived. you know—bigger bang for the buck. Our (ANY country) education, medicine, politics, business, marriage are so full of BACKWARDS incentives that we will never come close at ALL to USING the intricacies of the problems this blog discusses. Maybe you think you can live a life disconnected from this, but if you have a job or are in a relationship or have kids, then you’re not overcoming any bias. You may know that, but you’re not living it. Paying tribute to that with my Anonymous quote.
simply saying that you’ve talked about a weakness doesn’t erradicate it.
Presence of discussion about the problem doesn’t make the problem go away. But it is what makes your assertion about the presence of the problem useless: it’s known, it’s acknowledged, it’s discussed, nothing to be gained by rehashing the issue without making progress.
once again, there are two problems. 1 - we all have it. 2 - they all have it way worse. you guys focus on 1 and i’m sayign that in a world of blind one eye man is dead meat. Sure seems like you guys are quite emotional about the whole thing with negative ratings (didn’t realize it was also a contest for worst quote), so you don’t seem to be makign that much progress on 1.
“We are not rational, we’re rationalizing”. (hope this is still in the spirit of the blog...i think)
This thought is very pervasive to OB/LW: see here, here, here, here, here, here, or use Google. Downvoted because you’re quoting your own LW comment, violating two of the guidelines above.
I’m not saying, give up the fight, just acknowledging the problem. The quote is attributed to Anonymous, the greatest philospher that’s ever lived, not me. And the only time i mentioned it was asking for everyone’s opinion when i first stumbled onto this blog. That’s hardly pushing my agenda. I still don’t understand how you guys trust yourself to not rationalize. I can’t remove myself out of the context of my existence (very similar to my issue with Ethics philosophy). I very quickly get to a point where survival and existance become more important than staying internally consistent.
Studies of patients with split brains have allowed us to begin to understand the functions and relative roles of different parts of our thinking organ. The left hemisphere, usually referred to as the “rational” side, is actually the rationalizing one, what neurobiologists call “the left interpreter.” It is in charge of holding onto one person’s current paradigm and worldview, no matter what the evidence. The left brain will distort facts if they conflict with the current held viewpoint. We like to think of ourselves as rational animals, but perhaps it would be more accurate to describe ourselves as rationalizing animals. However reasonable a view may be, it’s possible that we have acquired it for wholly irrational reasons and are now simply rationalizing it in order to maintain our self-image as consistent, rational, and moral. It’s not just a question of rationalization, either — we appear capable of making up complete falsehoods as part of this.
Massimo Pigliucci continues in the Summer 2003 issue of Free Inquiry:
In fact, the left brain can literally make up stories if the evidence is scarce or contradictory. A typical experiment was with a patient characterized by a complete severance of the corpus callosum (which connects the two hemispheres in normal individuals). He was shown a chicken leg to the right half of the visual field (which is controlled by the left brain) and was asked to pick a corresponding object. Logically enough, he picked a chicken head. The subject was then shown a house with snow to the left field (controlled by the right brain) and, also logically, chose a shovel.
The individual was then asked to explain why he picked a chicken head and a shovel. Notice that there was no communication between the two hemispheres, and that the only hemisphere that can respond verbally is the left one. Astonishingly, the left hemisphere made up a story to explain the facts while being ignorant of half of them: the shovel was necessary to clean the chicken excrement! I never cease to be amazed at the sorts of things that these experiments on cognition and brain function reveal. I’m sure that the average person would not have thought the above situation to be likely, but it clearly happened: a person made a choice for entirely sensible reasons, but because their brain was unable to understand or articulate them, it made up entirely new reasons and created a story around them.
Simply amazing — and all the more so because the belief being rationalized here was so obviously reasonable and appropriate in the first place. It’s bad enough that a person might rationalize bad beliefs, but apparently we rationalize good beliefs as well. How often do you suppose this happens? How many of our beliefs, especially the very good ones, are rationalized rather than rational?
Should be perhaps change our beliefs about qualifies as “rational”? If we did, wouldn’t that be a rationalization as well?
longest quote EVER. hahah.
We don’t “trust” ourselves not to rationalize, we acknowledge the problem and fight it.
If you’re trying to make the point that truth-seeking isn’t always beneficial, we know that too. I’m too lazy to give you a large list of links, but the first ever post by Robin and the second ever post by Eliezer discuss the issue. I’d estimate the number of posts dealing with this exact topic to be somewhere between 10 and 100 (including my own first post on LW when I was much stupider than now), so you may find it interesting to browse the archives for a while.
simply saying that you’ve talked about a weakness doesn’t erradicate it. The weakness may be within you, but what affects you mroe is the extent of the problem with the REST of the society. If anything my point is that you should be spending all your effort working on the other 99% of the population, because they’re going to affect your life a whole lot more by limiting your ability to live your life they way you think it oughta be lived. you know—bigger bang for the buck. Our (ANY country) education, medicine, politics, business, marriage are so full of BACKWARDS incentives that we will never come close at ALL to USING the intricacies of the problems this blog discusses. Maybe you think you can live a life disconnected from this, but if you have a job or are in a relationship or have kids, then you’re not overcoming any bias. You may know that, but you’re not living it. Paying tribute to that with my Anonymous quote.
Presence of discussion about the problem doesn’t make the problem go away. But it is what makes your assertion about the presence of the problem useless: it’s known, it’s acknowledged, it’s discussed, nothing to be gained by rehashing the issue without making progress.
once again, there are two problems. 1 - we all have it. 2 - they all have it way worse. you guys focus on 1 and i’m sayign that in a world of blind one eye man is dead meat. Sure seems like you guys are quite emotional about the whole thing with negative ratings (didn’t realize it was also a contest for worst quote), so you don’t seem to be makign that much progress on 1.
“Even when I’m railed at, I get my quota of renown.”
~ Pietro Aretino
Not so much. Around here, rationalization is considered an irrational activity. (Also, are you quoting yourself?)