We can imagine a continuous line-up of ancestors, always daughter and mother, from modern humans back to the common ancestor of humans and, say, cows, and then forward in time again to modern cows. How would we then divide this line up into distinct species? Morally significant lines would have to be drawn between mother and daughter, but that seems absurd!
That’s a common fallacy. Let me illustrate:
The notions of hot and cold water are nonsensical. The water temperature is continuous from 0C to 100C. How would you divide this into distinct areas? You would have to draw a line between neighboring values different by tiny fractions of a degree, but that seems absurd!
I’m not the one arguing for dividing this up into distinct areas, my whole point was to just look at the relevant criteria and nothing else. If the relevant criterion is temperature, you get a gradual scale for your example. If it is sentience, you have too look for each individual animal separately and ignore species boundaries for that.
I’m not the one arguing for dividing this up into distinct areas
Right, you’re the one arguing for complete continuity in the species space and lack of boundaries between species. Similar to the lack of boundary between cold and hot water.
you have too look for each individual animal separately and ignore species boundaries for that.
I’m confused. You seem to think it’s useful to sit by an anthill and test each individual ant for sentience..?
For a morally relevant example, it is quite absurd to suppose that humans aged 18 years and 0 days are mature enough to vote, whereas humans aged 17 years and 364 days are not mature enough. So voting ages are morally unacceptable?
Ditto: ages for drinking alcohol, sexual consent, marriage, joining the armed services etc.
Actually, there is a case to say that they are. Discrimination by category membership, instead of on a spectrum, means that candidates which have more merit are passed aside in favor of ones with lesser merit- particularly in the case of species, this can be problematic. The right of a person to be judged on their merits, if asked in abstract, would be accepted.
The only counter-case I can think of it is to say that society simply does not have the resources to discriminate (since discrimination it is) more precisely. However, even this does not entirely work out as within limits society could easily improve it’s classification methods to better allow for unusual cases.
If you’re going to say that “hot” and “cold” are absolute things rather than continous on a spectrum, yes. Similiarly, it is absurd to say that species is an absolute thing rather than an arbitrary system of classification imposed on various organisms which fit into types broadly at best.
The usual solution involving water temperature is to have levels of suitability.
I want to shower in hot water, not cold water. Absurd? Not really. Just simplified. In fact, the joy I will gain from a shower is a continuous function of water temperature with a peak somewhere near 45C. The first formulation just approximated this with a piecewise line function for convenience.
Carrying the analogy back, we can propose that the moral weight of suffering is proportional to the sentience of the sufferer. Estimating degrees of sentience now becomes important. ISTR that research review board have stricter standards for primates than rodents, and rodents than insects, so aparently this isn’t a completely strange idea.
That’s a common fallacy. Let me illustrate:
The notions of hot and cold water are nonsensical. The water temperature is continuous from 0C to 100C. How would you divide this into distinct areas? You would have to draw a line between neighboring values different by tiny fractions of a degree, but that seems absurd!
I’m not the one arguing for dividing this up into distinct areas, my whole point was to just look at the relevant criteria and nothing else. If the relevant criterion is temperature, you get a gradual scale for your example. If it is sentience, you have too look for each individual animal separately and ignore species boundaries for that.
Right, you’re the one arguing for complete continuity in the species space and lack of boundaries between species. Similar to the lack of boundary between cold and hot water.
I’m confused. You seem to think it’s useful to sit by an anthill and test each individual ant for sentience..?
I think “animal” was used in the sense of “kind of animal” here.
For a morally relevant example, it is quite absurd to suppose that humans aged 18 years and 0 days are mature enough to vote, whereas humans aged 17 years and 364 days are not mature enough. So voting ages are morally unacceptable?
Ditto: ages for drinking alcohol, sexual consent, marriage, joining the armed services etc.
Actually, there is a case to say that they are. Discrimination by category membership, instead of on a spectrum, means that candidates which have more merit are passed aside in favor of ones with lesser merit- particularly in the case of species, this can be problematic. The right of a person to be judged on their merits, if asked in abstract, would be accepted.
The only counter-case I can think of it is to say that society simply does not have the resources to discriminate (since discrimination it is) more precisely. However, even this does not entirely work out as within limits society could easily improve it’s classification methods to better allow for unusual cases.
The main advantage of simple discrimination rules is that they are less subject to Goodhart’s law.
If you’re going to say that “hot” and “cold” are absolute things rather than continous on a spectrum, yes. Similiarly, it is absurd to say that species is an absolute thing rather than an arbitrary system of classification imposed on various organisms which fit into types broadly at best.
The usual solution involving water temperature is to have levels of suitability.
I want to shower in hot water, not cold water. Absurd? Not really. Just simplified. In fact, the joy I will gain from a shower is a continuous function of water temperature with a peak somewhere near 45C. The first formulation just approximated this with a piecewise line function for convenience.
Carrying the analogy back, we can propose that the moral weight of suffering is proportional to the sentience of the sufferer. Estimating degrees of sentience now becomes important. ISTR that research review board have stricter standards for primates than rodents, and rodents than insects, so aparently this isn’t a completely strange idea.