I tried to do some of them, but I found that I often felt that I needed more prerequisites even when Eliezer’s posts did not themselves have any prerequisites. I guess EY can assume that we know certain things which I cannot assume 5 year olds know (for example, that your parents don’t have infinite money).
I’ll keep hacking away at it, I guess, but I’m having a hard time finding a starting point.
Hmm. Try copying Aesop’s approach. Bad thinking should have bad consequences that can be played out (unexplained) in the plot, after which time the explanation of the moral will be easier to follow.
Keep in mind that Aesop’s Fables didn’t originally come with morals! That’s a strictly Victorian perversion.
The Fables were originally meant to be understood and interpreted by everyone who heard them, themselves.
(edit) I will further note that many of the “traditional” morals pasted onto some of the Fables don’t actually make much sense when looked at critically. Does “slow and steady wins the race” make sense in itself, much less as an explanation for “The Tortoise and the Hare”?
A much more plausible moral would be “talent is good, but hard work is better”.
Amy and Betty are both sick and they have medicine to make them better—they have to take one tablet a day. Amy gets lazy and misses a few days, then tries to make up for it by taking a whole bunch at once. Instead of getting better—she gets really sick from overdose. Whereas Amy’s friend Betty who continued to take the medicine one day at a time, every day—got better.
The moral here is that for some activities (eg taking medicine, exercise, maintaining a relationship or learning a new skill..). you have to put in small amount of regular, continuous effort—rather than thinking you can make up for it by overdosing on a large amount at one time.
Note that one probably doesn’t want to aim the program at children who are too young. For one, magical thinking is a normal part of child behavior until a certain age, so trying to impose a rationalist mindset on those kids probably won’t do much good before they’re ready for it. Also, (this isn’t my field of expertise, but was pointed out to me by a friend who’s studied developmental psychology in more detail) young children do need a feeling of safety about the world (visible, for instance, in the way that daily routines are important for them) - imposing a rationalist “question everything” mindset from too early an age probably isn’t the best way to go.
I suspect that, for both of these points, you’ll want to be aiming at a somewhat older age than five.
Kids under five anecdotally have a harder time learning to count, learning that there’s still the same number of balls after you re-arrange them than before (many pre-schoolers will count them all over again), etc. So a math program for pre-schoolers needs to be built from smaller building-blocks than a program for adults. I imagine it’s similar with rationality.
That needn’t mean teaching math or rationality to pre-schoolers is silly. My mom played a lot of math games with me in the zero to five years, and while it’s hard to tell effects without larger sample-sizes, and despite the Judith Rich Harris results, it seems plausible that this gave me math farther into my bones than I would otherwise have gotten it. (E.g., a large fraction of my pre-age-eight memories involve mathematical concepts, usually ones I was just sponaneously thinking about.)
As to the feeling of safety, there’re a lot of early rationalist thinking skills that can be taught without eroding the kid’s trust in their parents and stable home. Math, noticing how you’re feeling and what effect that has on your actions, asking why gadgets work and enjoying the exploration, turning questions into testable hypotheses...
My mom played a lot of math games with me in the zero to five years
What sort of math games does a mother teach a zero year old baby? I can’t imagine it would have much interest beyond “how many breasts do I have to choose from for my next meal?”
I tried to do some of them, but I found that I often felt that I needed more prerequisites even when Eliezer’s posts did not themselves have any prerequisites. I guess EY can assume that we know certain things which I cannot assume 5 year olds know (for example, that your parents don’t have infinite money).
I’ll keep hacking away at it, I guess, but I’m having a hard time finding a starting point.
Hmm. Try copying Aesop’s approach. Bad thinking should have bad consequences that can be played out (unexplained) in the plot, after which time the explanation of the moral will be easier to follow.
Keep in mind that Aesop’s Fables didn’t originally come with morals! That’s a strictly Victorian perversion.
The Fables were originally meant to be understood and interpreted by everyone who heard them, themselves.
(edit) I will further note that many of the “traditional” morals pasted onto some of the Fables don’t actually make much sense when looked at critically. Does “slow and steady wins the race” make sense in itself, much less as an explanation for “The Tortoise and the Hare”?
A much more plausible moral would be “talent is good, but hard work is better”.
Actually I think it is an important lesson.
A good, modern, quick example might be:
Amy and Betty are both sick and they have medicine to make them better—they have to take one tablet a day. Amy gets lazy and misses a few days, then tries to make up for it by taking a whole bunch at once. Instead of getting better—she gets really sick from overdose. Whereas Amy’s friend Betty who continued to take the medicine one day at a time, every day—got better.
The moral here is that for some activities (eg taking medicine, exercise, maintaining a relationship or learning a new skill..). you have to put in small amount of regular, continuous effort—rather than thinking you can make up for it by overdosing on a large amount at one time.
Alternative moral: “No matter how great you are, there exists a level of pride sufficient to bring you down.”
Note that one probably doesn’t want to aim the program at children who are too young. For one, magical thinking is a normal part of child behavior until a certain age, so trying to impose a rationalist mindset on those kids probably won’t do much good before they’re ready for it. Also, (this isn’t my field of expertise, but was pointed out to me by a friend who’s studied developmental psychology in more detail) young children do need a feeling of safety about the world (visible, for instance, in the way that daily routines are important for them) - imposing a rationalist “question everything” mindset from too early an age probably isn’t the best way to go.
I suspect that, for both of these points, you’ll want to be aiming at a somewhat older age than five.
Kids under five anecdotally have a harder time learning to count, learning that there’s still the same number of balls after you re-arrange them than before (many pre-schoolers will count them all over again), etc. So a math program for pre-schoolers needs to be built from smaller building-blocks than a program for adults. I imagine it’s similar with rationality.
That needn’t mean teaching math or rationality to pre-schoolers is silly. My mom played a lot of math games with me in the zero to five years, and while it’s hard to tell effects without larger sample-sizes, and despite the Judith Rich Harris results, it seems plausible that this gave me math farther into my bones than I would otherwise have gotten it. (E.g., a large fraction of my pre-age-eight memories involve mathematical concepts, usually ones I was just sponaneously thinking about.)
As to the feeling of safety, there’re a lot of early rationalist thinking skills that can be taught without eroding the kid’s trust in their parents and stable home. Math, noticing how you’re feeling and what effect that has on your actions, asking why gadgets work and enjoying the exploration, turning questions into testable hypotheses...
What sort of games? I should be running my daughter through these!
A couple of people asked about the games your mum put you through as a kid. I’m really interested too.
Care to share? :)
What sort of math games does a mother teach a zero year old baby? I can’t imagine it would have much interest beyond “how many breasts do I have to choose from for my next meal?”