While some people argue that the impossibility of making an exact copy of a physical object is the reason why the original is distinct from the copies (and therefore the crux of why this doesn’t generalize into the digital world), and that therefore the small difference in chemical composition or whatever makes up for those orders of magnitude, I think that this view is pretty silly. A visually indistinguishable painting has the same aesthetic value, and conveys the same historical value to the viewer, and even if you argue that there is some premium to having the original, it seems pretty absurd to suggest that the minor visual differences and chemical composition are worth, within a rounding error, $870 million of the $870 million the Mona Lisa is valued at, and that the actual content of art itself modulo some small errors is worth basically nothing in comparison.
Of course the aesthetic component of the imperfection is irrelevant. But the fact that there is an imperfection still matters because it allows you to pretend that the the aesthetic component matters. I would predict that noticeably (though this could just be 10% or something ) fewer people would go to museums if we could make perfect copies.
Also, the vast majority of NFT related things (as are most crypto things) are downright fraud/scams
stupid question: how? Since there is no pretense of utility to NFTs, it means the value comes entirely from owning something scarce. How can this be a scam even in principle?
Suppose someone has a copy of the Mona Lisa at home. I heavily doubt that their decision on whether to see the Mona Lisa at the Louvre depends at all on how good the copy is. You don’t go to see the real Mona Lisa because you think your copy is imperfect, you go to see it because you want to be able to say you saw the Mona Lisa. I don’t even think most people could quantify what the differences between their cheap copy and the original are.
The Mona Lisa in particular is especially infamous for being very crowded and thus not a great experience to go look at (thus, the experience of viewing the Mona Lisa at the Louvre is objectively worse than viewing it at home), and still, tons of people go anyways, because one does not simply visit the Louvre without seeing the Mona Lisa.
About the scam thing, lots of people attribute properties to NFTs that they don’t have, or mislead people as to what they’re buying, or simply make claims that this is a way to get rich quick, or exploit information asymmetry to sell NFTs that (explicitly or implicitly) purport to be endorsed by someone they aren’t, and also anyone involved in crypto is instantly 200% more likely to be phished or ransomwared, etc.
I’m not sure you’ve engaged with my point. I would be shocked if people could quantify the difference or tell them apart, so I agree with most of what you said. But this is compatible with having a belief that you do it for the difference, even if this sounds absurd to you or me, and I don’t see why this belief can’t make a difference.
Do you have examples of people misleading buyers? (Note that you claimed that most are scams, so this should happen in >50% of cases.)
If the incorrect expectations are just implicit, I honestly wouldn’t count that as a scam, but of course now it’s just a matter of definitions. However, shouldn’t you call a lottery a scam by these standards?
If it’s about the belief and not about whether it can be quantified at all, people will always have somewhere to retreat their belief to. At the most extreme, even with extremely good copies people will bottom out to the No Cloning theorem to argue that the original is different.
I don’t have very much rigorous data about what proportion of NFTs are scams, only anecdata. However, my prior due to my extensive experience with the broader crypto space is that for people without the right memetic antibodies, it’s extremely easy to get screwed over in one way or another by shady practices and the very aggressive crypto memesphere (Ponzis, P&Ds, exit scams, vaporware, extremely aggressive marketing, FUD/FOMO, cults, etc), and what I’ve heard about NFTs seems largely in line. I think the term I’m looking for is a bit broader than “scam”, though I’m not sure what the best term is, and I’d be open to changing my post to use that term instead. Overall, I’m not very interested in litigating out exactly what % of crypto/NFTs are this way, because it’s not what I’m most interested in.
If it’s about the belief and not about whether it can be quantified at all, people will always have somewhere to retreat their belief to. At the most extreme, even with extremely good copies people will bottom out to the No Cloning theorem to argue that the original is different.
Well, since we don’t have any data on this, there’s not really a way to find out who’s right. Though I intend to just ask some people how they feel about it.
I don’t have very much rigorous data about what proportion of NFTs are scams
Sorry, but isn’t the “scam” part a property of how the NFT is sold rather than the NFT itself? Otherwise I don’t understand what part of the NFT makes it a scam.
Based on browsing the market and arguing with people, it seems to me that sellers lying to buyers about it being a good investment is rare. (This is the standard I would use for “scam”, but, well, words.) The other relevant statistic is the percentage of buyers that are purchasing NFTs thinking that they are a great investment (even if this has not been explicitly promised). Agree that this isn’t core to your post, though.
stupid question: how? Since there is no pretense of utility to NFTs, it means the value comes entirely from owning something scarce. How can this be a scam even in principle?
Classical pump and dump scheme. Someone makes new NFTs promising that they will go up in value. People buy NFTs, hoping to earn money. Then the scammers cash out and run away.
Are people making such promises explicitly, or do buyers just go in with the expectation? I’ve taken a cursory look at https://opensea.io and haven’t seen explicit promises.
As far as I understand, it’s more like an implicit assumption heavily supported and perpetruated by community of corresponding NFT project. Here is a link from an ad that I keep getting at youtube https://dag.expopulus.com/. This project gives me vibes of standard NFT thingy which can end up being a scam. You may try to explore discord servers of different NFT communities and see how people behave there.
Of course the aesthetic component of the imperfection is irrelevant. But the fact that there is an imperfection still matters because it allows you to pretend that the the aesthetic component matters. I would predict that noticeably (though this could just be 10% or something ) fewer people would go to museums if we could make perfect copies.
stupid question: how? Since there is no pretense of utility to NFTs, it means the value comes entirely from owning something scarce. How can this be a scam even in principle?
Suppose someone has a copy of the Mona Lisa at home. I heavily doubt that their decision on whether to see the Mona Lisa at the Louvre depends at all on how good the copy is. You don’t go to see the real Mona Lisa because you think your copy is imperfect, you go to see it because you want to be able to say you saw the Mona Lisa. I don’t even think most people could quantify what the differences between their cheap copy and the original are.
The Mona Lisa in particular is especially infamous for being very crowded and thus not a great experience to go look at (thus, the experience of viewing the Mona Lisa at the Louvre is objectively worse than viewing it at home), and still, tons of people go anyways, because one does not simply visit the Louvre without seeing the Mona Lisa.
About the scam thing, lots of people attribute properties to NFTs that they don’t have, or mislead people as to what they’re buying, or simply make claims that this is a way to get rich quick, or exploit information asymmetry to sell NFTs that (explicitly or implicitly) purport to be endorsed by someone they aren’t, and also anyone involved in crypto is instantly 200% more likely to be phished or ransomwared, etc.
I’m not sure you’ve engaged with my point. I would be shocked if people could quantify the difference or tell them apart, so I agree with most of what you said. But this is compatible with having a belief that you do it for the difference, even if this sounds absurd to you or me, and I don’t see why this belief can’t make a difference.
Do you have examples of people misleading buyers? (Note that you claimed that most are scams, so this should happen in >50% of cases.)
If the incorrect expectations are just implicit, I honestly wouldn’t count that as a scam, but of course now it’s just a matter of definitions. However, shouldn’t you call a lottery a scam by these standards?
If it’s about the belief and not about whether it can be quantified at all, people will always have somewhere to retreat their belief to. At the most extreme, even with extremely good copies people will bottom out to the No Cloning theorem to argue that the original is different.
I don’t have very much rigorous data about what proportion of NFTs are scams, only anecdata. However, my prior due to my extensive experience with the broader crypto space is that for people without the right memetic antibodies, it’s extremely easy to get screwed over in one way or another by shady practices and the very aggressive crypto memesphere (Ponzis, P&Ds, exit scams, vaporware, extremely aggressive marketing, FUD/FOMO, cults, etc), and what I’ve heard about NFTs seems largely in line. I think the term I’m looking for is a bit broader than “scam”, though I’m not sure what the best term is, and I’d be open to changing my post to use that term instead. Overall, I’m not very interested in litigating out exactly what % of crypto/NFTs are this way, because it’s not what I’m most interested in.
Well, since we don’t have any data on this, there’s not really a way to find out who’s right. Though I intend to just ask some people how they feel about it.
Sorry, but isn’t the “scam” part a property of how the NFT is sold rather than the NFT itself? Otherwise I don’t understand what part of the NFT makes it a scam.
Based on browsing the market and arguing with people, it seems to me that sellers lying to buyers about it being a good investment is rare. (This is the standard I would use for “scam”, but, well, words.) The other relevant statistic is the percentage of buyers that are purchasing NFTs thinking that they are a great investment (even if this has not been explicitly promised). Agree that this isn’t core to your post, though.
Classical pump and dump scheme. Someone makes new NFTs promising that they will go up in value. People buy NFTs, hoping to earn money. Then the scammers cash out and run away.
Are people making such promises explicitly, or do buyers just go in with the expectation? I’ve taken a cursory look at https://opensea.io and haven’t seen explicit promises.
As far as I understand, it’s more like an implicit assumption heavily supported and perpetruated by community of corresponding NFT project. Here is a link from an ad that I keep getting at youtube https://dag.expopulus.com/. This project gives me vibes of standard NFT thingy which can end up being a scam. You may try to explore discord servers of different NFT communities and see how people behave there.