(First impression: You’re talking about the 130 vs. 145 distinction whereas I’m talking about the 145 vs. 160 distinction (which you characterize as “even better”). (Can-barely-stand-up drunk (yet again!), opinions may or may not be reflectively endorsed, let alone right.))
Yes, it’s plausible that we’re talking about different distinctions. But even in the range 145-160 I am very, very unconvinced that using fewer parens is a good sign of intelligence. Perhaps you have some actual evidence? Unfortunately, people with an IQ of 160 are scarce enough that it’ll probably be difficult to distinguish a real connection from a spurious one where it just happens that the smartest people are also being careful about writing style.
(Increasingly contemptuous of your too-drunk-to-stand signalling extravaganza; my comments may be distorted in consequence.)
Yes, I think I have evidence—of about 5 people I know of 160+ IQ, none use many parentheses, whereas I know of a greater than 1 in 6 fraction in the immediate predecessor-S.D. that fall into the parenthesis-(ab)using category. Of course, even I myself don’t put much faith in that data.
(Is my drunkenness-signaling (failed) signaling or (failed) counter-signaling (ignoring externalities in the form of diminished credibility)? I can’t tell.)
Is treating “data” as plural rather than singular correlated with difference between high and very high IQs in your experience? :-)
(I wonder whether I’m evidence one way or another here. I’m somewhere around 150, I think, and I used to use an awful lot of parens and have forced myself not to because I think not doing so is better style. But I’m more concerned with writing style than many other people I know who are about as clever as I am.)
((Counter-signalling is a special case of signalling. It isn’t necessarily (failed) just because I don’t like it.))
Is treating “data” as plural rather than singular correlated with difference between high and very high IQs in your experience? :-)
In my experience that seems to correlate a lot more with conscientiousness and caring about writing style after screening off intelligence. (Also: fuck!—I hate when I forget to treat “data” as plural.)
I used to use an awful lot of parens and have forced myself not to because I think not doing so is better style.
Same here, at least when it comes to writing for a truly general audience or for myself.
(Side note: another thing that confuses me is that intelligence doesn’t seem to me to be overwhelmingly correlated with spelling ability. Not quite sure what to make of this; thus far I’ve attributed it to unrelated selection effects on who I’ve encountered. Would be interested in others’ impressions.)
I have found entirely the opposite; it’s very strongly correlated with spelling ability—or so it seems from my necessarily few observations, of course. I know some excellent mathematicians who write very stilted prose, and a few make more grammatical errors than I’d have expected, but they can all at least spell well.
I know many very intelligent good spellers, and several very intelligent mediocre spellers, and one or two very intelligent apparently incorrigibly atrocious spellers. I don’t know any moderate-intelligence good spellers, a few moderate-intelligence atrocious spellers, and quite a few quite a few moderate-intelligence mediocre spellers. I don’t know very many dumb people socially, and mostly don’t know how good their spelling is as they don’t write much. People I met on the Internet don’t really count, as I filter too much on spelling ability to begin with.
(Since you two seem to be mostly using the mentioned IQ scores as a way to indicate relative intelligence, rather than speaking of anything directly related to IQ and IQ tests, this is somewhat tangential; however, Mr. Newsome does mention some actual scores below, and I think it’s always good to be mindful when throwing IQ scores around. So when speaking of IQ specifically, I find it helpful to keep in mind the following.
There are many different tests, which value scores differently. In some tests, scores higher than about 150 are impossible or meaningless; and in all tests, the higher the numbers go the less reliable [more fuzzy] they are. One reason for this, IIRC, is that smaller and smaller differences in performance will impact the result more, on the extreme ends of the curve; so the difference in score between two people with genius IQs could be a bad day that resulted in a poorer performance on a single question. [There is another reason, the same reason that high enough scores can be meaningless; I believe this is due to the scarcity of data/people on those extreme ends, making it difficult or impossible to normalize the test for them, but I’m not certain I have the explanation right. I’m sure someone else here knows more.])
(First impression: You’re talking about the 130 vs. 145 distinction whereas I’m talking about the 145 vs. 160 distinction (which you characterize as “even better”). (Can-barely-stand-up drunk (yet again!), opinions may or may not be reflectively endorsed, let alone right.))
Yes, it’s plausible that we’re talking about different distinctions. But even in the range 145-160 I am very, very unconvinced that using fewer parens is a good sign of intelligence. Perhaps you have some actual evidence? Unfortunately, people with an IQ of 160 are scarce enough that it’ll probably be difficult to distinguish a real connection from a spurious one where it just happens that the smartest people are also being careful about writing style.
(Increasingly contemptuous of your too-drunk-to-stand signalling extravaganza; my comments may be distorted in consequence.)
Yes, I think I have evidence—of about 5 people I know of 160+ IQ, none use many parentheses, whereas I know of a greater than 1 in 6 fraction in the immediate predecessor-S.D. that fall into the parenthesis-(ab)using category. Of course, even I myself don’t put much faith in that data.
(Is my drunkenness-signaling (failed) signaling or (failed) counter-signaling (ignoring externalities in the form of diminished credibility)? I can’t tell.)
Is treating “data” as plural rather than singular correlated with difference between high and very high IQs in your experience? :-)
(I wonder whether I’m evidence one way or another here. I’m somewhere around 150, I think, and I used to use an awful lot of parens and have forced myself not to because I think not doing so is better style. But I’m more concerned with writing style than many other people I know who are about as clever as I am.)
((Counter-signalling is a special case of signalling. It isn’t necessarily (failed) just because I don’t like it.))
((()))
In my experience that seems to correlate a lot more with conscientiousness and caring about writing style after screening off intelligence. (Also: fuck!—I hate when I forget to treat “data” as plural.)
Same here, at least when it comes to writing for a truly general audience or for myself.
(Side note: another thing that confuses me is that intelligence doesn’t seem to me to be overwhelmingly correlated with spelling ability. Not quite sure what to make of this; thus far I’ve attributed it to unrelated selection effects on who I’ve encountered. Would be interested in others’ impressions.)
I have found entirely the opposite; it’s very strongly correlated with spelling ability—or so it seems from my necessarily few observations, of course. I know some excellent mathematicians who write very stilted prose, and a few make more grammatical errors than I’d have expected, but they can all at least spell well.
I have the opposite impression, but now that I have that correlation it’s hard to make further unbiased observations.
I know many very intelligent good spellers, and several very intelligent mediocre spellers, and one or two very intelligent apparently incorrigibly atrocious spellers. I don’t know any moderate-intelligence good spellers, a few moderate-intelligence atrocious spellers, and quite a few quite a few moderate-intelligence mediocre spellers. I don’t know very many dumb people socially, and mostly don’t know how good their spelling is as they don’t write much. People I met on the Internet don’t really count, as I filter too much on spelling ability to begin with.
(Since you two seem to be mostly using the mentioned IQ scores as a way to indicate relative intelligence, rather than speaking of anything directly related to IQ and IQ tests, this is somewhat tangential; however, Mr. Newsome does mention some actual scores below, and I think it’s always good to be mindful when throwing IQ scores around. So when speaking of IQ specifically, I find it helpful to keep in mind the following.
There are many different tests, which value scores differently. In some tests, scores higher than about 150 are impossible or meaningless; and in all tests, the higher the numbers go the less reliable [more fuzzy] they are. One reason for this, IIRC, is that smaller and smaller differences in performance will impact the result more, on the extreme ends of the curve; so the difference in score between two people with genius IQs could be a bad day that resulted in a poorer performance on a single question. [There is another reason, the same reason that high enough scores can be meaningless; I believe this is due to the scarcity of data/people on those extreme ends, making it difficult or impossible to normalize the test for them, but I’m not certain I have the explanation right. I’m sure someone else here knows more.])